Juanjo wrote:sorry if I'm not geek enough for some people standards..

Juanjo - no need to get defensive. I was simply attempting to point out that you may discover a new world by learning more about brewing temperature and the effects it has on espresso tastes. I'm sure your espresso is wonderful, but I'm equally sure there is more yet to learn (for both of us)

Life is a journey my friend. To stand still is to miss the fun...

Jon,

no worry, thick skin here..
and agree with you.. since my equipment is far from needing any upgrade.. only upgrade I could use is SKILLZZZ..

my roasting could use some..!
http://s215.photobucket.com/album...lbumview=slideshow

Juanjo wrote:what's "better":

Rotary!

Seriously, it depends upon the type of drink(s) you're making, and the quantity. Then again, I'm perfectly happy with my HX machine and have no desire to switch¹ to a double-boiler² . . .

Cheers,
Jason

¹"Switch," rather than "upgrade"; nothing has convinced me that a DB machine is better than an HX model for my house. (A café is a different matter, although let's face it, lots of great shots are pulled in a number of cafés using an HX machine.)

²Unless, of course, someone wants to give me one of these, or perhaps one of these . . .

Bluegrod wrote: If espressos are your thing than a double boiler is really not that important.

I disagree. DB's are great for espresso drinkers (like me). The add stability in the brew boiler and ability to run it with the steam boiler off make it the best of both espresso and milk worlds.

Juango wrote: the biggest plus of the DB is that you can switch off one boiler..

Yes!

I serve one Latte for the wife each morning and couple of espresso for me. I turn on the 0.45L brew boiler 30 minutes before for warm-up. I turn my steam boiler on just 5 minutes before I brew the milk drink and turn it off right after the drink is served. My steam boiler is on for roughly 20 hours a year! My brew boiler is on more like 300 hours.

One thing for sure (and I got the kill-a-watt to prove it), the DB uses a lot less electricity compare to the HX I owned.

Hey Jim,

Just to clarify, I didnt mean to say that a PID'd steam boiler is better, or even neccesary. Ive personally said to myself, "ok, cool.. but is it really needed on the steam side?". Personally.. I dont know.

I do know this.. Adding a PID to the steam boiler isn't something to convince me to buy a certain model.

Proven track record... Readily available parts....Now THOSE are things which convince me.

Sorry I wasn't more clear about that...

Two points about steam boilers (in DB units):

1. Seems to me that a pressure-based PID would work better than temperature-based
2. Distilled water COULD be used, it just needs a little something added to make it electrolytic for autofill*

*Probably, just sitting in a metal boiler for a short period would do the trick, but if not then maybe a pinch of salt or a small amount of tap water added

Juanjo wrote:"RIGHT ON" is the perfect temperature for ME to enjoy my espresso to the fullest..
don't think I got to the point of one bean for this and one bean for that temperature..
AND to be honest doubt I'll EVER be..

If you've spent much time reading this forum, you will know that different beans, roasts and blends perform differently at a given brew temperature.

The ability to make temperature adjustments accurately and reliably is what drives most of the machine upgrades you see discussed here. If you just want to say "my espressos are always perfect, so I don't need to adjust temperature," you are closing yourself off from the ability to seriously improve your coffee, and are probably wasting your time here.

Brooklyn has some of the best coffee bars in the U.S. Why don't you stop in during a slow hour and talk with a barista about how they pick their brewing temperatures and the difference it makes in the cup?

well,

indeed I like spending time here, as CG and CS..

I enjoy my espresso pretty much.. but I don't remember saying "my espressos are always perfect, so I don't need to adjust temperature,"

my machine as most HX machine can easily change the themperature, but again, espresso is a lot of fun for me.. really enjoy it.. really like to learn more.. but I don't have a thermostat in my mouth and, hope you don't mind, I'd like to keep enjoying it my way and still be checking this site..


Thanks,

PS,
here in Brooklyn there is this Gorillas caffee.. which is pretty nice place.. they have a 3 group GS/3 and some enormous Mazzer grinders..they roast there beans, the baristas there seems to know what they do.. but (no to sound arrogant) I like my espresso better.
As for greens also here in Brooklyn is http://www.gilliescoffee.com/, can't beat them... HUGE green selection and very good stuff.

Dan,

don't get me wrong, but those two quotations don't make much justice..

yes indeed I'm pretty clueless about the difference of a DB and HX (no so much now)

and also I'd like to keep enjoying my espresso my way...
or should I enjoy my espresso experience in some other people way..:/


regardless..
is all in good spirit and even with all the "derangement" I know a bit more about DB and HX.

thanks,