I made the silly mistake of going onto a plumbed in machine early on in my journey..... No way i'll ever go back now, so maybe it was a good thing you didnt go straight for a plumb in? Means you have more of a choice!

Its a good point to consider, cos once you go black... sorry once you go plumbed in you never go back

dsblv wrote: After looking at HX machines, I finally concluded that the machines had too many compromises to justify their cost. Most of the machines use a vibe pump and require temperature surfing. You do get a dual function machine, but with major shortcomings.

I'm curious, what compromises do you mean? Design, parts, function...

Temp surfing is what I found I had to do on a thermostat controlled boiler with a wide dead band. The dead band of a pressurestat is not that wide and even so, in my experience, you don't temp surf an HX you flush it to drop the temp of the brew water in the HX line and cool down the group. Once flushed you have way more time to pull your shot that surfing a single boiler thermostat controlled machine and if you keep pulling shots back to back with a flushed HX there's no need to flush in between.

There's pros and cons, I believe, between both dual boilers and HX machines and quite a few topics devoted to discussing them. In the end I don't think there's really a decisive best pick. The choice appears to be more personal preference.

joellawry wrote:
Its a good point to consider, cos once you go black... sorry once you go plumbed in you never go back

Plumbed in rotary. No worries about water and quiet too.

Yes, but it is the same kind of upgradeitis that I get with regard to Nikon gear... you see, I own three professional bodies and enough lenses, and I don't need any more... but I still drool over the new toys.

I'm hoping that my current machine (Bezzera BZ99) and grinder (Mazzer Mini) last me at least through graduate school...

I'm still very happy with Ms. Anita (after a couple of years). I have wondered from time to time if it wouldn't be nice to have a machine that I could plumb it, however. Well, maybe when we get around to the kitchen remodel I've been waiting on ........

Cooling flush takes some getting used to, and it does use a fair bit of water (especially if left on 24/7 as mine is). But I am very satisfied overall. Granted, I lack the palate of many users here.

Upgrading, it is a never ending quest. Many think the Holy Grail is a multi-group commercial machine in the kitchen. Been there done than, it is not all it is cracked up to be. They are big, consume a lot of power, are big, you will never use more than one of the groups at a time, did I mention they are big? I went from a toy all the way up to a commercial two group, then back down to a commercial single group. Now I am happy.

Now and then I get the urge for something like a GS3, and then I pull shot from my A3 and think, Na. The question to ask ones self is if I spend $5000 on a new machine, will I get $5000 better cup than what I have now. That is not to say that if I had a bucket of cash to burn I would not get one, but I am no hurry. Now a grinder, that is another story.

Ken Fox wrote:Once you go beyond a certain level of espresso machine, the improvements you will have as a result of an upgrade become vanishingly small. I'd put that level as somewhere between your basic E61 machine and a good commercial single group. As to the differences between a basic E61 and a single group commercial, they would be more on the order of the job of making great shots becoming easier, rather than that your best shots on either type of machine would be better than the other one.

I think HX vs. Double Boiler is a fairly meaningless debate; you can get excellent shots on either type of equipment after you learn how to use it.

If you REALLY want to make better shots, there is really only one way, and that way is to use better coffee, whether home roasted or purchased. Given a good (not "great") level of equipment, large scale improvements come from upgrading the coffee you use, not the equipment.

ken

I completely agree. I went from a humble Gaggia Coffee to the Quickmill Anita. The change was drastic and very good. I simply don't lust for more. Once I became comfortable with the Anita I don't find myself lacking/wanting anything else. The Quickmill is a joy to use (for me).

From instant -> moka pot -> steam toy -> SB Barista -> 1 Gp Commercial Wega Airy EPU HX over the space of about 14 years.

No upgradeitis now. Perfectly happy with my set up and the plumbed in and out nature of a commercial is a pure pleasure!

I had an Isomac Tea (hx machine) for about a year before finally deciding that domestic sized hx machines are too much of a compromise for me to be happy using them (I'm sure fullsized commercial ones are a whole different story).

Upgraded to a plumbed in/out double boiler machine which is - for me - much easier to use and get a consistent result, and being plumbed, much more convenient.

Don't think I'll be upgrading from this one until it finally dies and isn't repairable, which I hope is going to be some distance away.

Wish I'd bought this one from day one...of course

Personally, I think these two posts say it all . . .

cannonfodder wrote:Upgrading, it is a never ending quest. Many think the Holy Grail is a multi-group commercial machine in the kitchen. Been there done than, it is not all it is cracked up to be. They are big, consume a lot of power, are big, you will never use more than one of the groups at a time, did I mention they are big? I went from a toy all the way up to a commercial two group, then back down to a commercial single group. Now I am happy.

Now and then I get the urge for something like a GS3, and then I pull shot from my A3 and think, Na. The question to ask ones self is if I spend $5000 on a new machine, will I get $5000 better cup than what I have now. That is not to say that if I had a bucket of cash to burn I would not get one, but I am no hurry. Now a grinder, that is another story.

Ken Fox wrote:Once you go beyond a certain level of espresso machine, the improvements you will have as a result of an upgrade become vanishingly small. I'd put that level as somewhere between your basic E61 machine and a good commercial single group. As to the differences between a basic E61 and a single group commercial, they would be more on the order of the job of making great shots becoming easier, rather than that your best shots on either type of machine would be better than the other one.

I think HX vs. Double Boiler is a fairly meaningless debate; you can get excellent shots on either type of equipment after you learn how to use it.

If you REALLY want to make better shots, there is really only one way, and that way is to use better coffee, whether home roasted or purchased. Given a good (not "great") level of equipment, large scale improvements come from upgrading the coffee you use, not the equipment.

. . . and are worth repeating.

Thank you so much for your responses to the poll. Reading them has been very enlightening, and quite enjoyable.

FWIW, I pulled the trigger on a Expobar Brewtus II this morning.

The only upgrade I might do is to jerry-rig a float valve filler line from my existing under sink RO system into the pour-over tank. Has anyone done this?

Thanks again for the insightful and knowledgeable comments.

David

CoffeeBuzz wrote:The only upgrade I might do is to jerry-rig a float valve filler line from my existing under sink RO system into the pour-over tank. Has anyone done this?

David, see Converting a pourover espresso machine to direct connect (NOTE - this and many other good threads are in the Espresso Gear FAQs and Favorites at the top of this forum listing).

No upgradeitis here...yet. However, my route was a little different. Armed with a Krups steamer and little knowledge but a real love of espresso, I hit HB over 1 1/2 years ago and became addicted to the site. I read, asked questions and saved my pennies. A senior on a fixed income isn't a pretty sight. Each time I zeroed in on a grinder and machine, another one came into view and so I mentally upgraded to the newest one in view. Then the big step. I got a Quickmill Grinder last December and some months later I picked up my Vibiemme Domobar Super, Semiauto. Man, I am so satisfied with my team. Coffee is fine and as my learning curve grows so does the quality of my shots. And, I just got my first shipment from Intelligentsia...on our HB Wish List I won a six month subscription to Intelligentsia's Coffee roaster. A great deal..look up the details. During some personal down-time HB was like a classroom to me so I just kept upgrading online. Also, I seem to have a growing circle of friends who like to visit,...and have a cuppa. They keep saying my espresso and milk drinks are better than *$s and I remind them the price is too!
Hope your holidays are as warm and happy as a cup of espresso.

Hey Bob, great to hear that you won the Intelligentsia coffee subscription - I can tell you'll enjoy every second, er, pull, of it.

David, good call on the Brewtus. Congratulations - nice holiday present that will bring years of great coffee!

For me, there really isn't much desire to upgrade. For current rig continues to amaze me with what it's capable of. I'm sure my wife wishes I had a rotary pump when I'm up early on a Saturday or Sunday morning... Oh well. And the La Cimbali Junior grinder has been great. But that new hybrid (conical/planar combo) sure looks intriguing!

CoffeeBuzz wrote:The only upgrade I might do is to jerry-rig a float valve filler line from my existing under sink RO system into the pour-over tank. Has anyone done this?

Quit Filling that Water Tank

I held back on replying because I don't (and never did) have a HX machine.

When I was searching for what to upgrade to, I was considering also HX machines, but after lots of readings and etc. I knew I would never be satisfied with one. It's not nessecerily because of some fault of the HX machines, rather it is in me: some kind of confidence that I'm lacking would make me forever wonder about the temp of every single shot.
So a DB was the only option for me and I'm in confidence heavens every time I pull a shot.

Congratulation on your Brewtus!

CoffeBuzz,

Congratulations on pulling the trigger! I hope you will keep us posted on the effect of your decision. I especially would like to hear of your trials and tribulations as you master your learning curve and new machine. As I wrote earlier I too upgraded from a Silvia and seriously considered a Brewtus II. You should probably start a new thread, but please, keep us posted!

Best of luck, and I wish you years of enjoyment.

I don't have upgrade-itus on my espresso machine. I just bought a beautiful 2 year old Rancilio S-24 in October, and although there is a learning curve, I was immediately able to make better drinks than on my Saeco Via Veneto. No, what I have found is that I want to get better and better grinders. I started with a KitchenAid Pro Grinder, which isn't bad, but then I bought a used Compak k-5, and that fullfils my immediate needs, but every time I see a conical grinder for sale, the urge hits me. THere was a Conical Faema recently for sale...but fortunately for me, the seller never replied to my query. He had probably already sold it.