Hi all,

I'm a newbie to this wild world of high-end coffee (I've had a steam-only Krups w/blade grinder for the last 5 years). I recently saw Alton Brown's Good Eats and decided to upgrade. I pretty much purchased what he used on the show... the Saeco Aroma and Gaggia MDF.

I'm having some issues.

I ground the beans to what I thought look good, tampered them to 30lbs, primed the pump using the manufacturer's instructions and let 'er rip. The shot came out in about 10-12 seconds but I think it had a nice crema (second guessing due to it's pressurized pf but it looked like Alton's) and it tasted okay (it's an upgrade at least). I then removed the pf and saw that the puck was not a puck but a gooey mass with a thin layer of water on top. I repeated this several times with the same results. I then just ran the espresso without the pf and saw a streaming jet come out of the center holes in the machine (picture included).



The unit was a refurbished item and I'm wondering if it just needs to be cleaned or returned. Or if this is normal. If it is, then I don't know why the goo and why are the shots so short.

Please help.

Thanks,
Brian

Okay, an update to my "issue".

I just got off the phone with Saeco Tech Support and they informed me that this is normal for this model. I'm still having a hard time swallowing this response due to the gooey, watery grounds and 10 second pulls.

Does anyone around here have the same machine? If so, how does yours perform? Any information would help.

Thanks,
Brian

Another update... (I used to work in Tech Support for a software company)

I've called an authorized service center for Saeco and they gave me confirming information. He said that Saeco is putting newer heating elements on these units and these new units have small outlets that are in the center of the filter. This results in this action. Gooey, watery grounds are also a result. So it seems that even though I took a step up from the cheesy Krups, it wasn't as big a step up as I thought. Oh well, it was only $130. Now I don't know if I even need to use my tamper at all. Lame...

That is a rather forceful looking stream, is the dispersion screen missing? It's difficult to tell from a single photo; a video would be more revealing. BTW, DigMe mentioned that Alton switched to a pressurized portafilter during the espresso preparation sequence. A tamper doesn't do much in the case of a pressurized portafilter because its pinhole exit "aerates" the coffee to create (pseudo) crema:


From Krups filter basket has only one exit hole (?)

This small hole creates the back pressure, not the coffee. The puddle of water atop the puck is normal for espresso machines, like yours, that don't have a solenoid to release the pressurized water from the brew chamber.

Thanks for the super fast update Dan. I'll work on the video tonight. I do remember seeing a small pinhole at the bottom of the pf. It has an O-Ring as well. I'll get some pics and post them here as well.

The Saeco has the pressurized portafilter holder (the handle) and uses a regular basket (unlike the Krups above). My only experience on a Saeco is the Saeco-built Starbuck's Barista machine. This machine has the pressurized portafilter and does a good job with the non-pressurized PF (I never messed with the pressurized one). On the Barista, the water did not jet out of the dispersion screen, it came out at a leisurely pace.... your video of this action will show more than the photo.

You should be able to get the non-pressurized PF direct from Saeco USA or a service center.... if the water jets out, getting one might be a moot point as it would disturb the puck too much, so let's wait for the video.

Oh, and a welcome to HB!

Hmm, my old Pavoni did something similar when the shower screen became clogged. I can't tell from the picture you posted how the screen is held to the group, but I would guess there is a screw in the center. Remove the screen and take a look. I bet it's caked up with a layer of black tar coffee oils. If that's the case, soak it in a detergent solution for a few minutes then scrub it down.

you can get the non-pressurized pf for about $25 (incl. shipping) by directly calling saeco's customer service.

be sure to leave them a message telling them what you want, and they'll get back to you.
customer service agents almost never pick up the phone. it took me about 3 days to get in touch with them.

g.Narly wrote:Okay, an update to my "issue".
I just got off the phone with Saeco Tech Support and they informed me that this is normal for this model. I'm still having a hard time swallowing this response due to the gooey, watery grounds and 10 second pulls.
Does anyone around here have the same machine? If so, how does yours perform? Any information would help.
Thanks,
Brian

Hello Brian,
A SWAG
I just rebuilt the boiler in my Barista and the puck is always a bit, to a lot, gooey! I don't get the huge blast of steam though. You seem to have the kind of pressure I find with the steam switch on. A possibility is that when it was rebuilt, the wrong thermostat was used for the brew or the wiring was switched between the brew and steam thermostats. See if the machine works with less blast with the steam switch on.( that would use the thermostat that would be normally the brew one if it was miswired. If it is a newer model the boiler is stainless steel. Unplug the machine. It better be cold!

There should be a screw in the center of the dispersion screen, carefully take it out and check the screen for crud.

Bye the way, the Saeco people suggest spooning the gorp out of the PF and rinsing. Especially if you have the fancy pressurized PF.

Good luck and you may wish to go HERE

And here is the instructions for the PF and they do make a difference! HERE

sincerely
richard

PS you can call Edward at the above place after you've tried the PF instructions and the trying with the steam switch on experiments.

Your Saeco is capable of making better espresso than 90% of that you get in cafes (unless you live somewhere very special!).

I used a Saeco Via Venetto for years, then a SB Barista (same pump, group). Some of them do seem to spray a stream like you show. Try grinding fine enough to get <2 oz. of espresso in 30 secs. With or without the pressurized portafilter you can create your own pressure with grind and tamp. Once you've got the 30-sec grind/tamp (it will likely be pretty fine), you should get drier, more solid pucks and even extraction. YOU NEED TO EITHER WAIT A WHILE OR RELEASE EXCESS STEAM AFTER THE SHOT OR YOU'LL GET MASSIVE PORTAFILTER SNEEZE!

If you go to Saeco online you can get a $20 non-pressurized portafilter that will help you hone your espresso skills. These also take a little practice, but they leave you in control of pressure via grind/dose/tamp.

Here's a shot of a Via Venetto espresso:



PC

Wow, so much useful information! I feel really bad that I didn't get to make that video last night. I should have time tonight.

I think that I'll definitely take a look at what's under the hood too, especially to at least make sure that the unit's clean.

Thanks!

Brian

Okay, I've got some video of the water jets. Let me know what you think:

Here's some video of the goo:

g.Narly wrote:Here's some video of the goo:

Yup, That 'm the goop! That's why they say to scoop it out with a spoon, It is so sticky that it may damage some of the pressure portafilter innerds to smack it hard enough to clean.
The video for the shot wasn't too much different that mine.
Now you get to practice the 4 M's.
sincerely
richard

g.Narly wrote:Hi all,


I'm having some issues.
.... I ran the espresso without the pf and saw a streaming jet come out of the center holes in the machine (picture included).


The unit was a refurbished item and I'm wondering if it just needs to be cleaned or returned. Or if this is normal. If it is, then I don't know why the goo and why are the shots so short.

Please help.

Thanks,
Brian

Brian - your shower screen screw is too tight. loosen it up until the jet stream stops. it will seem loose, but that's how it's supposed to be. I had the same thing happen to my Saeco after I removed the screen for cleaning. all is well now.

also, the goop is normal for the pressurized portafilter. with a non-pressurized you will not have it (unless you use too fine a grind w/ too light a tamp).

Hi!
I was using Saeco Super Idea De Luxe for year and a half, that's almost the same machine as yours (yet under European name). I was fighting my head against the wall with desperation to
1. achieve consistent results
2. make it brew espresso for more then 15 seconds.
Thanks to this machine I started searching for coffee forums and learning barista techniques and then decided to upgrade.
After I upgraded I found out I still have a few things to learn, , yet I have a ground to measure my skill (and not the machine limits).
However, not to put you completely down:
Here is my original question on CoffeeCrew and a little discussion.
However, (a) you will not get >15s brew time on your machine no matter what you do and (b) I may only admit to be very very stubborn questioning Colin's advice

EDIT: and yes your machine behaviour is normal

Czescz Pawel, I had overlooked that we have a HB member from Lodz.

It is possible to get 30 sec pours with a Saeco if you have a fine enough grind. I started on a Saeco, and after getting a good hand grinder I found it very easy to dial in 30-sec shots. I still use an Estro as a backup, with the non-pressurized PF, and it produces very nice espresso.

PC

I haven't managed to get a non-pressurized portafilter for my Saeco, with the pressurized pf I only got longer brew time if I let it be more then 2oz and quite blond.

CoffeeOwl wrote:I haven't managed to get a non-pressurized portafilter for my Saeco, with the pressurized pf I only got longer brew time if I let it be more then 2oz and quite blond.

That is exactly what you do not want to do. Letting the shot run 28 seconds at the expense of letting it run over 2oz could be bad. I am assuming it is way over 2oz and you are using around 15grams of coffee, letting it go blond is very bad. That leads to over extraction and a bitter cup of coffee. You would be better off cutting the shot when the blonding starts.

cannonfodder wrote:That is exactly what you do not want to do.....

Yes, that's what the results were.