First let me say that I am new to the business/pleasures of commercial machines and have limited experience in dealing with the hardware end of making espresso. I have been making espresso with a small home machine I got in Toronto about 15 yrs ago.

That said, I am somewhat mechanical and enjoyed the challenge of disassembling, cleaning, renewing and reassembling this 1995 vintage, single group, 110V, external pump, "salt" water softener equipped beastie. It is an "S" model according to the tag. It has a manual, not electronic controlled group head flow switch.

A note here, the machine sat unused for between 1 and 3 years as far as I know. I acquired it earlier this month. I did NOT renew the electronic components or the Sirai Pressure stat. I note with interest that it connects to a 3-way valve on top of the boiler from which also connect the pipe to the steam valve and a connection to the top fitting on the dual pressure gauge.

I'd like to add also that I got a bunch of gaskets, O rings and miscellaneous bits from EspressoParts.com in Olympia, Wa and they have been super prompt in their shipping and have given me advice on one issue I had which I appreciated a great deal...

Here is what the current situation is:

I filled the boiler to near the max level on the sight glass, then turned on the power switch. After 10-15 minutes I had a boiler full of hot water.

- Boiler makes hot water and steam but cannot get any out of the hot water or steam valves.
- Can get hot water through the group head however so could "pull a shot" of espresso if I wanted to. When I push down on the lever, the water flows and the pump motor comes on.
- Pressure relief valve on top of sight-glass is emitting steam! Hmmmm.
- Dual pressure gauges do not register anything. Is there a way to "prime" them?
- The pressure adjustment screw on the PROCON water pump leaks back through the threads a small bit. Pump runs smoothly and is very quiet!

So, I have a partial success for which I am very thankful and pleased. Seems to me that somebody out there must recognize the symptoms of my situation and can offer assistance.

Thank you in advance.

My best guesses....

chezJohn wrote:-Boiler makes hot water and steam but cannot get any out of the hot water or steam valves.

Mostly likely scale, but given age of machine, valves should be rebuilt as well. You need to start doing some plumbing disassembly and see if you can determine if any of the tubes/fittings are scaled shut. Pickup tube for hot water may be blocked by scale level in boiler, or just closed off within the tube somewhere.

- Can get hot water through the group head however so could "pull a shot" of espresso if I wanted to. When I push down on the lever, the water flows and the pump motor comes on.

So water flows through the HX, but before you do any more serious work you should verify the integrity of the HX... if it is cracked, GAME OVER. You can see if the boiler holds pressure and does not lose pressure to the HX or vice versa.

- Pressure relief valve on top of sight-glass is emitting steam! Hmmmm.

Vacuum breaker?... can be cleaned, but replacement is better.

- Dual pressure gauges do not register anything. Is there a way to "prime" them?

Probably just blocked... with scale or something. You may end up replacing the capillary tubes and/or gauges but I would try to get them to work first.

- The pressure adjustment screw on the PROCON water pump leaks back through the threads a small bit. Pump runs smoothly and is very quiet!

Teflon tape?

I note with interest that it connects to a 3-way valve on top of the boiler from which also connect the pipe to the steam valve and a connection to the top fitting on the dual pressure gauge.

I assume this is just a fitting and not a valve?

Re: scale, possible blockage etc: I previously had cleaned all components by liberal bathing in citric acid solution and have blown out all the tubes with compressed air to assure they pass air/water, so I doubt scale buildup is the cause.

Re: Steam & Hot water valves not functioning: I previously had disassembled them and cleaned in citric acid solution as well. Then reassembled. Today, after reading your post, I once again disassembled them and blew compressed air through the steam valve assembly. I could not get air to flow through the hot water outlet! Both looked clean, but frankly I am not sure, after looking at exploded parts diagram from two different parts suppliers, if the hot water valve is, or ever was assembled correctly.

At any rate, I have no steam or hot water.

Re: Vacuum breaker on top of sight glass: I will order replacement.

Re: the pressure gauges: I disconnected the capillary tubes tonight and blew compressed air through them both. I also put compressed air to the top inlet and got the needle to register approx 1 bar. The lower needle registered nothing when I applied compressed air....I don't know if there is a way to clean out the gauge or not.

So water flows through the HX, but before you do any more serious work you should verify the integrity of the HX... if it is cracked, GAME OVER. You can see if the boiler holds pressure and does not lose pressure to the HX or vice versa.

This sounds gosh-awful serious. How do I verify the integrity of the HX to determine if it is cracked?

Is the following a true statement? The water for the steam valve (frother) comes from the HX? The water for the hot water tap comes from the HX?

Frankly I cannot tell on the surface of the boiler which fittings emanate from the boiler and which from the HX. I can tell you that the two lines feeding the aforementioned steam/hot water valves were cooler than the two which feed the Group Head when I had hot water in the boiler.

Re: three way valve: I do believe it is just a fitting as you noted and NOT a valve....BUT it does feed the steam valve.

I apologize for my lack of familiarity with all the component names.....

Thanks for your assist. Any further input is appreciated.

In conclusion: I have come to the point where I think I need to take the whole system (Machine, pump/water softener) to William at Home Espresso Repair in Seattle. he's only about a 30 minute drive for me. I hope he can fix the final issues I have been describing.

OK, cool. Your prior post did not indicate descale or level of tear down.

chezJohn wrote:This sounds gosh-awful serious. How do I verify the integrity of the HX to determine if it is cracked?

Well, I'll let someone else chime that has dealt with that.... but in a mostly assembled state, I might disconnect some grouphead to HX fittings, opening the HX to atmospheric pressure. Then power on machine and see if the boiler can come to pressure and stay there. If the HX is cracked, you would lose steam pressure from the boiler to the HX and hence the atmosphere.

Is the following a true statement? The water for the steam valve (frother) comes from the HX? The water for the hot water tap comes from the HX?

Typically, steam comes from the boiler and the hot water comes from the boiler. Some machines do have a separate HX for hot water, and some machines have a mixing valve that mix hot water from the boiler with cold water supply to make hot water.

Frankly I cannot tell on the surface of the boiler which fittings emanate from the boiler and which from the HX. I can tell you that the two lines feeding the aforementioned steam/hot water valves were cooler than the two which feed the Group Head when I had hot water in the boiler.

Post some pictures and we can help you out here.

I apologize for my lack of familiarity with all the component names.....
Thanks for your assist. Any further input is appreciated.

In conclusion: I have come to the point where I think I need to take the whole system (Machine, pump/water softener) to William at Home Espresso Repair in Seattle. he's only about a 30 minute drive for me. I hope he can fix the final issues I have been describing.

No apologies needed... I am sure someone can fix you up, but we can try a bit more. If you've had it apart this much, I think you can get it.

I would pull out the HW and steam taps, valves and lines that come off the boiler to the valves and descale again, verify that you can blow air through all fittings, supply lines and steam wand and tap. Verify that with the valves open that you can blow air through, and that they shut off properly.

On the gauges, the stuck one may be toast, so I would order some new gauges, sounds like the capillary tubes are fine. For test purposes, you might tee a gauge onto the boiler at some available point, and likewise for the brew path if desired. With non-functional gauges, it will be hard to set the pressurestat, etc.

Here are some images of my machine and its plumbing. I haven't gotten to annotating them yet with names for things.

I'm having to learn how to post as I go here.

It would be helpful if you could identify specific fittings which are HX only so I could "open to the atmosphere as you said".

I will pick up new gauges in the next couple of days or so.

Will also get a new vacuum thingy for the top of the sight-glass.

As for the valves; I just disassembled/reassembled them and can blow air through the steam but NOT the water. Steam seems to function OK, but the water valve not so. All plumbing seems clear as I can blow compressed air through it.

At this point I will settle for debugging the steam valve, getting pressure gauge readings, eliminating the vacuum leak and determining if the HX has a crack.......... and leave the water valve for later.

Regards

John Wurl

John-

While you don't have an E61 grouphead, you do have a thermosyphon and boiler/HX design like the one in the picture below:



E61 Thermosyphon/Heat Exchanger

I think you'll see from this picture what is connected to what as far as the HX is concerned, no?

If your boiler is not overfilling (is the sight glass working?), then your HX is fine.

EDIT - If you need help identifying any bits in there, just ask.... Personally, I'm curious how that manual brew switch works.

It is really cool that the single group has all the same components as the multis. It's like looking at a scale model of my machines interior.

attached is a valve component and assembly order picture. They are counter intuitive, to release H20 or steam you tighten the knobs (clockwise), to shut you loosen (counterclockwise) and the big internal spring shuts off flow, the small spring holds the check ball in place to prevent backflow. My valves were pounded and required new valve body pieces as well as seals.


If you cannot remove the valve stem (700827) easily from the body the threads may be hammered and not able to push the valve open, You may also be missing the mushroom shaped piece that fits into the end of the valve stem and contacts the valve (part # P193 epnw or 700826 CP)

Thanks so much Bishopthirteen, for the excellent instructions and photo with parts list. I did figure out the counterintuitive part about what is clockwise and what is not, the other night. At this point neither of my valves are functional, but I suspect its in part because my machine cannot yet maintain pressure.

I have disassembled my steam valve and it looks just like your picture with possible exception of parts 700825/826, but the water valve seems to be lacking several/many parts, notably the small spring and the little ball in addition to the aforementioned part numbers. Are they supposed to be identical internally? I thought there might be a difference. If identical, I suspect someone somewhere along the line was trying to fix a problem and messed it up.

I've been temporarily stalled in my attempts to continue fixing problems as we are getting new kitchen counters (upon which will sit the machine, and I have to get a new pressure gauge and vacuum release. Hope to resume early next week.

I think I've seen pics of your multi-group online and am pleased that many parts seem identical. Hopefully that may help me in future as you are so generous in sharing information.

This will jumpstart my investigation however and I thank you.

As soon as you confirm that the water and steam valves have the same identical internals I can order more parts.....

Regards.

John

I am 99.9% sure the H20/Steam valves are the same. A quick call to EPNW would confirm it. My valves were missing lots of pieces as well, I used the parts book to figure out what went where and my machine is currently undergoing a boiler transplant and has never been fully pressurized so I should point out all my Pavoni advice is hypothetical, but I'm pretty confident.

part # 700825 is NLA but I was told it is not really necessary. It is just a membrane gasket, a kind of squishy buffer between the valve (#700822) and the mushroom (#700826). The mushroom is critical, you will not be able to open the valve without it and may cause over tightening of #700827 as a result, leading to damaged threads like these.


PS Excellent news about your new Espresso Shrine! (some may call it a Kitchen but we know better)

Bishopthirteen: I am going to EPNW on Monday with valves in hand. I'll pick up needed parts and information, first hand. I am only 45 minutes via Interstate 5 from their home base in Olympia, Wa. I'll post outcome of my visit Monday afternoon. I'll be getting new pressure gauge; new vacuum assist valve for top of sight glass as well. Many thanks. If I can be of assistance to you, please don't hesitate to ask.

The "Espresso shrine" will be new Granite, Brazilian (Giallo Playa no less! Spouse has chosen well. A worthy adornment to the Italian art which will sit upon it don't you think?


John