Hello,
I am gathering parts to plumb-in my Brewtus, and also upgrade to a Procon rotary pump.
I am going to add a check valve, a Swagelok relief valve,and a gicleur needle valve to the output of the pump, then a 3/8" line x 6 ft lg to connect to the machines' boiler tee input.
First, coming out of the pump, in which order should the three components be installed?
Second,should the check valve be a piston, ball, or disc type? Should it have metal to metal, or soft seals? Should it be spring loaded? What cracking pressure is best?
Thanks, Dennis

denniskeating wrote:I am gathering parts to plum-in my Brewtus, and also upgrade to a Procon rotary pump.
I am going to add a check valve, a Swagelok relief valve,and a gicleur needle valve to the output of the pump, then a 3/8" line x 6 ft lg to connect to the machines' boiler tee input.
First, coming out of the pump, in which order should the three components be installed?
Second,should the check valve be a piston, ball, or disc type? Should it have metal to metal, or soft seals? Should it be spring loaded? What cracking pressure is best?

Seems to me that you can save a bundle of money by eliminating the Swagelok relief valve. You should get a Procon with the built-in relief valve and use that.

I don't believe the order is critical, I would go pump, needle valve, check valve.

Soft seal is nice, so it doesn't leak back. But they all do, eventually. I use a spring-loaded one, but I wouldn't sweat it. As long as the cracking pressure is less than 9 bar, I wouldn't sweat that, either.

Hi Dennis,

The first time I used a rotary on my Brewtus I did the following conversion:

1. Remove the outer case and reservoir
2. Remove the stainless shelf for the reservoir and put a jumper on the 2 leads for the reservoir sensor switch.
(This will defeat the empty reservoir sensor but you are plumbing in ..right)
3. Remove the Vibe pump and OPV assembly from the machine.
4. Remove the opv assembly from the vibe pump in addition to the De-aeration valve assembly.
5. on the input side of the OPV you should have a 1/4 in female thread, to adapt this thread to a npt fitting, you need to go to the local Home Despot or favorite plumbing supply and buy a 1/4fip to 3/8 npt adapter fitting and some teflon tape. This fitting will convert the FIP thread to an NPT that you can screw a compression fitting or other type of adapter for your tubing to the rotary pump.

The procon pumps have output pressure regulation built into them so you will not need to rely on the opv or any other type of relief valve for pressure regulation duties. the stock OPV also has a check valve built into the input side of the valve so you will not need a check valve either. you will need to set the OPV at a setting higher than the rotary so it does not bypass all the time.
another thing you will need to do is run a tube from the bypass port of the OPV to the back of the spout under the group on the Brewtus, this will route any overflow from an over-pressure event to the drip tray.

one potential downside of this installation is that the OPV may leak a few drops out the bypass when subjected to constant line pressure
from your city supply.

you will also need to make sure your supply to the rotary is regulated because the outlet pressure of a rotary is a combination of the
supply side pressure plus the set pressure of the pump...if the supply to the rotary varies...so does the output.

At the moment, I would try this approach as it is very low cost and and worked very well on my machine, in fact, Abe's Brewtus is converted in this manner and works just fine.


I am currently writing a document on how to convert a Brewtus to a rotary pump, it will be very like the Compendium only instead
of doing a dual PID it will cover how i did a rotary conversion. I will post it in the Brewtusgroup archives when I complete it.


Cheers,
Sean

P.S. Happy New Year all!

Hey Dennis, forget what I said, listen to Sean.

Dennis,

The only thing I would add to what Sean said (forget what Andy said entirely ) is instead of routing the OPV back flow tube to the back of the spout underneathe the group, route it to the empty water reservoir. On my brewtus, I initially routed it as Sean suggested but because of the crappy drip tray a big puddle of water accumulated on top of the tray. As long as you don't cut the tube short you could try both methods and see which works best for you.

Doug

Hello,
I have been wanting to plumb-in Brewtus for a year, now,and when WLL didn't come thru with their kit, I started collecting my own components about two months ago.
The first component I bought was the Swagelok RL3 relief valve.I bought this because of Sean's post of the stock OPV leaking with line pressure. I found out it needs a separate check valve to do the same job as the stock OPV valve.
In the meantime, I acquired Everpure pre-filter and 4CB water filters, and a good beverage pressure regulator and gauge, and some 3/8 steel braided teflon hose assemblies. (thanks, Doug).
That is when I figured why not upgrade the pump at the same time. The Procon pump will come pre set to 130 psi., but is adjustable. I thought that another OPV valve was still needed to protect the boilers? Hence, I would use my new Swagelok upgrade and a check valve.
Those parts are hard to fit in Brewtus case, so I thought I could install them right on the output of the Procon pump instead. A six foot 3/8" ID line will connect to the machine at the boiler tee.
Andy, I thought I would also add a needle valve you recommended to someone else to reduce the "frisky"preinfusion effects of the pump - 70-75 ml in 10 sec
Oh yes, the OPV bypass line can deposit water in the 2" washer drainpipe nearby.That line will be 1/4 ID vinyl tube.
My machine now sports 3-1/2" tall legs,and I plumbed in my drain tray.It is great!
I understand that upgrading the pump will not benefit me much, except for noise when operating.
I am also wondering if I will encounter any problems with the pump and water solenoid - needing different wiring with a relay rather than just a wire harness extension to the new pump?




Thanks All, Dennis

It can't hurt to have an extra in line check valve. Nothing wrong with redundancy. Most check valves have a cracking pressure of 1 bar but some are as low as 1/3 bar. Anything below your line pressure is good. I prefer metal to metal seals. They don't seem to wear out as quickly. Brass or stainless steel valves are fine. I use the MC-1 everpure as Jim Schulman has made some comments about phosphate sludge accumulating in the tank after awhile. The MC-1 doesn't soften but my water is right where I like it (5 grains). Every 6 months I'll run some citric acid thru the boilers. If I had to do it over again I would have probably attached the OPV to the pump as opposed to leaving it inside the machine. Not sure about the need for the needle valve as the middle position doesn't provide pre-infusion on the Brewtus without some extra wiring. The same wires that connect to the vibe pump will connect to the procon's motor. No extra wiring is needed. Terminate the motor's ground wire to the same place all other ground wires are terminated inside the machine.

Which style check valve is good for the application? There's piston,ball, and disc. I would think that spring loaded would be good for any. The stock OPV is equipped with a spring loaded ball check valve.
Don't I need a check valve and relief valve combo(either stock or upgrade parts) in the system on the boiler side of the pump? That is in addition to the Procon pumps bypass valve?
I was planning on hooking up to the boiler tee inside, eliminating the vibe pump, deaereator, and check valve/OPV assy. An exterior motor/pump combo with the Swagelok relief valve and check valve at the pumps output replaces the stock unit inside.
The Procon pumps bypass is the only relief needed?
Having a 2" drainpipe nearby will easily accept the tube for the bypass flow, instead of drip tray or reservoir.
I also thought adding a needle valve to the pumps output could tone down some aggressive characteristics from pump preinfusion as compared to a vibe pump.
Dennis

denniskeating wrote:Which style check valve is good for the application? There's piston,ball, and disc. I would think that spring loaded would be good for any. The stock OPV is equipped with a spring loaded ball check valve.
Don't I need a check valve and relief valve combo(either stock or upgrade parts) in the system on the boiler side of the pump? That is in addition to the Procon pumps bypass valve?
I was planning on hooking up to the boiler tee inside, eliminating the vibe pump, deaereator, and check valve/OPV assy. An exterior motor/pump combo with the Swagelok relief valve and check valve at the pumps output replaces the stock unit inside.
The Procon pumps bypass is the only relief needed?
Having a 2" drainpipe nearby will easily accept the tube for the bypass flow, instead of drip tray or reservoir.
I also thought adding a needle valve to the pumps output could tone down some aggressive characteristics from pump preinfusion as compared to a vibe pump.
Dennis

Hi Dennis,

I have a disk style and it seems to be resistant to the "rattles" at low flow rates.

Don't confuse the bypass valve in the Procon for the any type of bypass in the machine...the sole purpose of the "Bypass" valve in the procon is to regulate output pressure.

The setup should be the following sequence of parts;

1. Boiler
2. Relief valve (the swagelok RL3 you have)
3. Check valve (whatever type you get)
4. Hose to pump
5. Procon (or similar)
6. Mains pressure regulator. (this keeps a consistent pressure on the pump)
7. Shutoff valve (Solenoid or other)

I would hesitate to put the relief and check valve back at the pump because there is nothing to prevent your machine from emptying itself all over the floor when you disconnect the hookup. I would pull the reservoir and the internal shelf to make room for the swagelok parts internally, that way, you can unhook the machine and you don't have the entire hose assembly as an active part of the boiler circuit.



Sean

I hope to finally get this straight. Thanks for everyones help.
Sean, how about connecting to the machine at the boiler tee? I understand the thread is 1/4" BSPT. I have already purchased two Swagelok Male Adapters -one is 1/4 BSPT x 1/4 NPT.
The other one is 1/4 BSPT x 3/8 NPT. I will only need one of these to convert to NPT.
The stock OPV/check valve and its connection tube will be eliminated, but their functions are required, and they will be replaced with Swagelok RL3 and a check valve to perform in its place.(preferably inside the machine). The relief valves bypass tube needs to be able to drain somewhere, even though not expected to overflow much.
Kind Sir, do I have the above correctly figured out?
Thanks, Dennis