Got my TDS meter hooked up but....

#1: Post by **cruzmisl** » August 21st, 2009, 9:14 am

Hi All,
I have a barrel type softener and I never know when to recharge the thing. I don't know how many gallons per day I go through therefore I have no idea when to add salt to the softener. Someone suggested an inline TDS meter. I picked one up for $40 or so and hooked it up. Works good and now I have a benchmark. Water in measures 114ppm and the water after the softener measures 33ppm.

I checked it this morning and the "in" water measures 114ppm and the "out" water measures 122ppm

This is strange. I took the probe apart, cleaned it with alcohol and also changed the batteries, same result. I also did a titratable calcium hardness test (from my pool kit). The tap water measured 100 and the water from my boiler measured 20. Im my mind it shows the softener is working but why doesn't the TDS meter measure it correctly? I just recharged it the other day.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Joe

#2: Post by **Bluegrod** » August 21st, 2009, 9:20 am

Don't quote me on this and I'm sure you will receive other advice but I am not sure that a TDS meter will work with softened water. When I was setting up my filter package I think I recall someone saying that they would not be effective for softened water as the meter measures TOTAL dissolved solids where as you are more concened with the hard solids. The meter is therefore going to measure the total of the soft solids and the hard solids. That I think is why your number is off.

My best suggestion would be to spend some time over the course of a few days and try and figure out how much water is going through the filter on an average day and then test the incoming water for hardness level. At that point it is easy to figure out how long the filter should last before needing re-charging. Chris Coffee sells some excellent test strips that measure the hardness of the water better than any I have ever used as they have a different scale on them as opposed to others I have tried so testing the water whenever you want should not be an issue.

August 21st, 2009, 9:37 am

Found on another website.......boooo!

"I am using a (whole house water softener or, in-line filter on the end of my espresso machines feed pipe etc..) and when I check the Total Dissolved Solids (TDS), I get a reading of 250 for the unsoftened water and 265 for the softened water. It looks as if my softener is not working properly."

It's a common mistake and caused by not testing correctly, the TDS of water softened using an ION exchange resin will be pretty much the same as it was before. The TDS meters work my measuring electrical conductivity, a good indicator of the dissolved solids (more dissolved solids, higher conductivity).

I guess then that the only way to get this meter to work would be a reverse osmosis system then use a "T" with a ball valve to introduce straight tap water in hopes of achieving the desired hardness. What is the ideal hardness anyway? What would be the ultimate set up for functions and taste?

Thanks,
Joe

#4: Post by **Bluegrod** » August 21st, 2009, 10:35 am

I don't know all the exact parameters for "perfect" water but I run a 3 stage system (sediment-softener-carbon) and the my total hardness is under 3 which Chris Coffee says is perfect as it is a good balance between water that is low enough in hardness to allow the auto fill sensor to function yet keep the hardness low enough to not let alot of scale build up in the machine. I am not sure about RO water and it's effect on espresso quality but it has been mentioned several times in many forum topics here so a quick search should bring up several results to consult.

August 21st, 2009, 11:37 am

I also figured I'd measure the pH out of the boiler and it was 8.2

tap is 7.2 Whats up with that? I measured the pH out of the group and it was 7.5. Maybe I should flush the boiler.............

#6: Post by **cruiten** » August 21st, 2009, 11:41 am

If you are interested in determining how much water your filter has processed you might want to try a digital flow meter such as this one http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-157- ... 8-fpt.aspx from FreshWaterSystems.com.

From the FreshWaterSystems.com website description:

The DigiFlow 8000T is a filter monitor with LCD display. It monitors volume capacity and / or elapse time of filter by customer's programming. The programming procedure is easy to understand and operate. The monitoring volume capacity is programmable from 100 to 9900 gallons. The monitoring operating time are programmable from 30 to 720 days, or just disable.

Cor

#7: Post by **another_jim** » August 21st, 2009, 12:48 pm

cruzmisl wrote:I also figured I'd measure the pH out of the boiler and it was 8.2 tap is 7.2 Whats up with that? I measured the pH out of the group and it was 7.5. Maybe I should flush the boiler.............

If you steam regularly, you need to flush your boiler regularly, even when you use treated water. When you steam, water but no minerals go out, and when the boiler refills, minerals come in. No matter how low the treated water TDS is, the minerals will eventually build up. At 8.2 pH, your carbonate hardness (alkalinity) is above 200 mg/L, and you are depositing a lot of scale. Flushing the boiler regularly significantly reduces mineral build up.

August 21st, 2009, 1:20 pm

Strange, I flush it regularly and haven't been steaming much lately. I also make several americanos daily

I have since flushed at least 5-6 quarts of water through the hot water tap and it still measures 8.2......I don't get it. Am I doing something wrong?

September 1st, 2009, 1:27 am

Anyone have any ideas why the boiler water has such a high pH?

September 1st, 2009, 1:31 pm

Sorry, I missed your previous post. I'm not sure about this, but it could be that pH and TDS readings for boiler water are misleading. You do get some leached copper in the water, and that will probably throw off both the pH and TDS readings. You may be best off doing only chemical tests for hardness (i.el check for calcium and carbonates, not conductivity).

However, you are overdoing this whole thing. If you have a properly working ion softener, scaling is no longer a concern, since all the calcium and magnesium are removed from the water. You check an ion exchange softener with a basic hardness strip, not a ph meter, nor a tds meter, nor an alkalinity test, nor anything else, just a hardness strip -- and it should read zero.