Hi Guys,

I have just purchased a Gaggia Classic after a few weeks of research into the world of home espresso.
Since I got it second hand, I knew there would be a chance that things might not be calibrated as they should be and I hope to find out if it is through some of your help.

I have been furiously reading this forum, and looking at people pulling shots on youtube using the Gaggia and based on 'what I know' there could be something amiss?

In particular the flow of coffee.

Now is when I would expect the various mentions of grind settings, tamp pressure/style and bean freshess to occur. In all these are excellent starting points and I am experimenting with all !!!

At the same time, being a second hand machine, I also want to cover off the and 'technical' possibilities for the flow being too fast.

Explanation of my shot (I plan to post a video too)
After preparing the coffee, tamping and pre-brewing etc I place the portafilter in the machine and turn one the brew button. The pump engages and within 2 seconds (seems fast) the flow begins? Its usually quite dark but at the same time not thick....like black water. This continues for another 2 seconds, then the pump changes noise (like it does on the videos I've seen) as the pressure of pumping through the coffee grinds is felt. At this stage the coffee looks pretty good coming through, but there has been almost 4 seconds of the black water so the shot glass is 1/3 full at this stage. Within 8-10 second (or less), the shot glass or 60-70 mls (2-2.5 oz) is full. Depending on the bean, I can get a 1-2 mil crema head during this time. If I use a larger cup (100ml or 4 Oz) then i get slightly more crema but not much.

My question really is about that 4 odd seconds of 'black water' that rushes out before the pump pressure is really engaged????

Has anyone else experienced this?

I have tried three different beans, three different grinds, many different tamps. I have even tried SUPER fine grind and MASSIVE pressure tamp and still get the 'black water' scenario.

I dont think it's channeling?

as a note: It is quite hard to lock the portafilter in place, needs a bit of force.

So rest assured I will continue to try other beans, grinds and tamps but if any of the above rings any bells for a secondhand machine I am all ears????

thanks for your help.
J

p.s I tried using the 'perfect crema device' and coffee was going everywhere except down coming sidewards out of the spouts ?

If you have done enough reading then you should have learned:
1 - THE GRINDER is #1 in the equation. But you have not mentioned what grinder you are using.
2 - Although you state you have used different coffees, what are they EXACTLY? How long since they were ROASTED (note: if a coffee says "Best if used by," don't buy it.).

A friend of mine uses a Gaggia Classic and he used to have similar problems. He started doing a manual pre-infusion method by opening the steam wand valve before pushing the brew button. After about ten seconds, he would close it and the espresso would start to flow within a couple of seconds. His shots taste significantly better. I'm sure that someone who actually owns the machine can give you more detailed advice. I just though I would contribute my $0.02 .

Set your grinder finer. If you bought preground coffee, throw it out and buy an espresso grinder.

Hi there and thanks for the replies.

Grinder: Coming soon so I will be able to test it properly. I'm getting a Baratza Virtuoso
Beans/Coffee: Roasted 2 days before usage a local roaster boutique. French Roast, Ground in their shop burr grinder to Espresso fine grade, tested within 1 hour of grinding. Also tried another Bean, Almost turkish grind and brew within 20 mins. Finally, I tried a standard store bought espresso grind, probably had a use by date, not sure.

Pre-infusion: I have tried the steam wand/hot water preinfusion...it does seem to help a little, but the flow still seems to come 'early' before the pump starts to really 'work'.

Appreciate your tips and advice....

J

Hi J, & to everyone else,
Since I've only just joined & this is my first post, I should just say hi, & thank everyone who contribute, to make what is, an entertaining & highly informative site.
J, I have a Gaggia Classic & although I havn't experienced your symptoms, I wonder if you still need to get your grind even finer. Try getting it so fine that the machine "chokes", i.e. it can't push the water through the coffee. If your grinder is able to grind fine enough to do that, then back it off a little to get the desired flow.
Randy G asked about the quality of the grinder, & this just might be your problem. If I try to put already- ground coffee from the supermarket through my machine, then I would get your problem, the shot would be done in just a few seconds, & not worth drinking. If your grinder is only capable of a similar grind then that might just be it.

Cheers,

Ted.

janszoon wrote:French Roast, Ground in their shop burr grinder to Espresso fine grade, tested within 1 hour of grinding.

Sorry, it's game over. While brewed coffee allows some latitude on grind time/grind setting, espresso is significantly more exacting. Use preground coffee while saving for an espresso grinder? and dozens of threads like it explain that using preground coffee, no matter how recently ground, is an exercise in futility.

My question really is about that 4 odd seconds of 'black water' that rushes out before the pump pressure is really engaged?

Alas, this is a classic symptom of stale coffee.

janszoon wrote:I have just purchased a Gaggia Classic after a few weeks of research into the world of home espresso........

Arghh...

As i suspected, and hinted at in my first response, in your weeks of research, at least one time, you would have HAD to come across a quote that resembled, "The grinder is more important than the espresso machine," or "The espresso machine is an accessory to the grinder."

Until you have a grinder and fresh, whole bean coffee, you are in for a world of frustration and a waste of a lot of coffee..

Arghh...

As i suspected, and hinted at in my first response, in your weeks of research, at least one time, you would have HAD to come across a quote that resembled, "The grinder is more important than the espresso machine," or "The espresso machine is an accessory to the grinder."

Until you have a grinder and fresh, whole bean coffee, you are in for a world of frustration and a waste of a lot of coffee..

Thanks Randy !
Yes - I have read that and this is the approach I am taking !!! It just turned out I got the machine slightly before the grinder. I am buying the grinder new, while the machine was just a good value second hand buy.

I may just be jumping the gun with my post.

I just thought having tried a few grind types / fresh beans I might have got a diff result so far.

Anyway I will post back once I have tried a few grinds with the new Grinder next week.

Cheers,

J

janszoon wrote: Yes - I have read that and this is the approach I am taking !!! It just turned out I got the machine slightly before the grinder. I am buying the grinder new, while the machine was just a good value second hand buy.

Ha. Don't feel too badly about that. The same thing happened to me. My machine arrived a week before my grinder thanks to a quirk of auction shipping. I was anxious to confirm that the (used) machine was working, so I went to my local shop, bought their espresso blend, and asked them to grind it for me. Thankfully, the barista insisted on only grinding part of the bag and promised to grind the rest if I returned and still wanted it ground. My results were very similar to yours. That is to say, so bad that I was content to consume the rest of the bag as French press using my non-espresso grinder until the grinder I had ordered arrived.

FWIW, if "French Roast" is similar to what it is here, that's likely quite a bit darker than you'll want to use in your new grinder. I don't like to use beans where I can see much oil on the surface.