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Gaggia Carezza pump dislodged

Postby seandil on Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:58 pm

Hello,
I bought a used Gaggia Carezza Silver Serial #0106047710 and it will not prime its pump. When I first unpacked it, I heard something moving around inside? I removed the top and one of the plastic pieces that holds the pump to the unit was broken. The pump was dislodged from where it should be. I got the left side of the pump mounted correctly where it should go, and this seems to be enough to keep the pump in its place.
I noticed on another forum, someone said I would have to "reset" the pump if it became dislodged? I also saw where someone suggested that I remove and clean a part that is screwed into to the lower end of the valve that controls the steam flow when comes out of the steam wand. This is done using a black knob that is screwed into the top of the machine. This valve I mention is connected to the top of the boiler with two connections going into it. Then screwed into the lower hole 'the part that needs cleaning' is mounted there with a hose connected to it which comes from the pump.
Before I take it all apart someone please advise me what to do. I went through the priming procedure correctly. It will not suck up any water when I turned on the pump and opened up the steam valve, nor would it build up any steam when I turned on just the steam switch. After awhile some drops of water did drip out of the steam wand, but only three or four.
The pumps makes allot of noise, and the top of the machine feels hot. I did turn it off after a minute or so to avoid damage. I went through the cleaning procedure, removing the screen held by a screw and the metal part held by two 5 mm Allen screws. There was allot of deposits and the people I bought it from messaged me later that its been sitting up for two years.
I think something is just badly clogged. The inside of the machine was wet also.

Help,
Mark :evil:
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Postby Heckie on Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:05 am

Sounds like there is a blockage in the water pathway somewhere in the machine, probably at the entrance to the boiler i.e. the inlet valve fitting (part#36) or the outro of the boiler i.e. the small group assembly fitting (#49) that screws into the group. Refer to parts diagram.
First you need to see if the pump is supplying water to the group. If you are confident and feel up to it, with the steam knob and top cover off the machine and the machine cool and unplugged (make sure water reservoir is full and in normal position)...
1.) lay a towel down underneath bottom of machine
2.) Disconnect the top brass nut (#22) on the outlet safety valve for the pump (#71). Slightly loosen that safety valve so as to position a small paper cup in there to collect water that will be coming out of the pump and through the end of that fitting that you just disconnected. You may have to re position pump slightly to get a better angle. Plug in machine and with fitting aimed into cup, very briefly turn on the power and brew button simultaneously and then both quickly off. You will be looking for a stream of water discharging from pump when it is activated. If there is, then the pump is moving water properly and if not then you know, at least, the pump is bad (you'll need a working pump before performing the next steps). Now reassemble the fitting and move on to the next step.
3.) Unplug the machine again. Remove inlet valve fitting (see #36) by loosening hex bolts with a short allen wrench (5mm should be the size), approx 8 oz water might pour out of hole in the boiler ---> hence reason for a towel underneath machine, a relatively cooled and unplugged machine :)
4.) Clear Blockage in that hole in the boiler if there is some. While you have the inlet fitting off the boiler check to see that it is not clogged. If either are clogged use a small needle to clear out blockage and reassemble.
5.) Now remove group screen (#44), place a cup under group head, plug in machine, turn power switch on and hit brew switch, you should have some water coming out group, may take a 5 seconds or so, if all water came out of boiler in last step. If there is water flow, clean group screen again and consider descaling machine soon, Parts Guru (google them) has a good descaler, parts, and a diagram for this machine.
6.) If there is still no water coming out the group, then the blockage is in the group valve assembly (#49) and take note of it's oring (#41). Again make sure machine is off and cool and leave group screen off. The group valve is tricky to get out, and I have broken plenty of those little pieces of crap, hence the reason it's the last trick on my list here. It should unscrew (lefty-loosy as I remember) with a socket and ratchet though :roll: . After unscrewing you'll again likely have water coming out the group, be careful. Clean valve assembly or better yet replace it and clean any blockage in hole going up into boiler. Reassemble valve assembly, and then screw the clean group screen back up in group. Consider descaling.

That should do the trick! If you do diagnose in this order you can save yourself some time. If the pump is bad, you may want to order the group valve along with it just in case. Order all your parts together and save time and big hassle. You may want to consider ordering group head gasket (#52) while you are at it. FYI, I have no direct affiliation with Parts Guru, they have just been a really good resource for me in fixing Gaggia machines. GOOD LUCK!
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Postby seandil on Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:41 pm

Thank you sir!
I'll get started and let you know what I find. I saw another post where someone said their problem was part #56 connected to the steam valve assembly (#53)? I also found a post that said since one of the plastic mounts to the machine for the rubber mounting 'legs' on the pump broke during shipment, and the pump was moving around on the inside of the machine or became dislodged; that I would have to reset the pump? Should I worry about any of this?

Thanks sir,
Mark :)
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Postby Heckie on Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:12 am

sorry if the link I mentioned above for the parts diagram for some reason does not work... try here if necessary. As for resetting the pump, not quite sure what they meant by that, I would ask them for clarification. I don't see how one rubber mount would cause the problems you described, their is no "reset" on the pump itself really. It's just a standard Ulka pump. Only thing I can think they might be referring to is the possibility of an "airlock" has others have termed it, in the water pathway, which is common if the machine has been sitting for a while without water in the reservoir. That might have caused the symptoms you were describing, except the solution for that problem, is to open the steam valve and hit the brew switch, with the machine turned on. Which I think you said you already did to no avail. Then again, you may find the pump is moving water just fine after removing that brass nut on the safety valve (as described earlier) and after connecting, it works fine, hard to guess really.
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Postby seandil on Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:07 pm

Thanks for helping again,
I downloaded the parts diagram from somewhere else after your message. Here's what I found:

In doing your first step I learned that the pump worked! I removed part # 22 and water gushed. I went on to part #36 and found just a very minimum amount of scale. I removed the scale and checked the water flow using the pump. It flowed well. Next, I removed and did not break the touchy part #49. I found nothing and cleaned it anyway, as I did everything I took apart. With part # 49 removed, water again gushed after a small amount of time with of course part # 36 hooked up. afterwards, I did the priming pump procedure and water came out of the steam wand fine. I concluded no blockage there. I did not remove any of the steam want parts form the top of the boiler or anywhere else. Next I made steam and cooled down the boiler, as the Gaggia instructions directed. I am now finally to the point of making espresso. Your procedure was first class, simply start upstream and look at each point on the way downstream until you find blockage.
I do not know anything about these machines, but guess I had one heck of a vapor lock? Now before I make espresso, I want to mention that when I removed part #22 at the beginning of your procedure, the pump made allot of noise at first and then got much quieter. It obviously primed itself and became quieter. Now when I primed the pump with the machine re-assembled, it seemed to me to make the allot of noise as before except this time it pumped water through the machine. I realize that this is due to resistance, there being more with the machine re-assembled rather than what I disconnected in your first step directly at the pump. However, this thing is so loud that it will wake up people in my house. Maybe once I put some coffee into the drip cup, it will quiet down? I will let you know.
Now please let me know if there is anything else I need to do and thank you so much for your expertise.

Best Wishes,
Mark :mrgreen:
seandil
 
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Postby Heckie on Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:09 pm

I do not know anything about these machines, but guess I had one heck of a vapor lock?

Yes, sounds like that was the issue. The pump will be loud and then get quieter once water is moving, usually takes a few seconds. Those rubber legs actually help to dampen the noise, could be scale build-up in the pump causing the noise, or often pump noise can be attributed to an excess or insufficient amount of resistance in the water-pathway. Try checking to see if part Safety Valve (#71) is redirecting any water back into tank, as it should be, I believe it has an adjustable screw. I am just guessing at this point at possible causes of pump noise though. It could be a number of reasons start with the rubber feet. Good luck, happy brewing!
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Postby seandil on Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:01 pm

Hi,
At the tip of the safety valve which is mounted into a hole in the plastic where the pump is, that if opened or released would direct water back into the tank, I have never seen any water going back into the tank. I thought that this would only happen if too much pressure built up in the pump and the pump HAD to release it? I also did not see a screw to adjust anything? Is it inside the tip of the safety valve that points directly into the water tank? I saw something inside there. Can you please tell me how to properly adjust or clean this screw? I am sure there is a trade off of less pump noise, but also less pressure buildup before the valve releases making the coffee come out under less pressure?

Let me know and thanks so much for the help, its indispensable

Mark
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Postby Heckie on Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:10 am

After going back to the diagram I realized I had my machines mixed up. And upon a second look at the valve I think it is a back pressure safety valve of some sort protecting the pump. I was confusing the design and set-up for your valve with the set-up for a gran gaggia, similar looking machine but where that valve assembly does re-direct the water back to the tank. As for what is causing the pump noise... not quite sure. Anyway, the part that controls the brew pressure is the fitting that screws into the group. I don't know what the pressure going through your machine is but the concern to me would be the pressure at the grouphead, as that will affect the taste of the espresso. Search for info here on HB for testing brew pressure with gauge. That will give you an idea of what the actual brew pressure is. I would suggest you start with the rubber feet though, to see if that dampens the noise. If that doesn't fix the noise and the brew pressure is normal, then I'd guess assuming the noise is very very loud, you are looking at a blockage.
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