Ahem, probably a misunderstanding of terms ...
Low doses tend to overextract; high doses tend to underextract

Over extracted shots taste too mellow, since the extra materials extracted last are poorly soluble caramels that buffer and sweeten the strong tasting substances that are very soluble and extract quickly. A harsh tasting triple is under-extracted, a mild tasting single is over-extracted. A shot with balanced flavors, sweetness and creamy body buffers is properly extracted.

Has anyone noticed fewer grinds / fines in the bottom of the cup when using one of those micro-fine hole baskets?

cheers, Paul.

another_jim wrote:Ahem, probably a misunderstanding of terms ...
Low doses tend to overextract; high doses tend to underextract

Over extracted shots taste too mellow, since the extra materials extracted last are poorly soluble caramels that buffer and sweeten the strong tasting substances that are very soluble and extract quickly. A harsh tasting triple is under-extracted, a mild tasting single is over-extracted. A shot with balanced flavors, sweetness and creamy body buffers is properly extracted.

So if I understand this correctly now, to adjust for an under extraction(harsh, bitter) you dose less, thus allowing for a more even extraction of the caramels and sugars, and possibly grind finer.

fwtechwiz wrote:So if I understand this correctly now, to adjust for an under extraction(harsh, bitter) you dose less, thus allowing for a more even extraction of the caramels and sugars, and possibly grind finer.

The way underextracted shots taste vs overextracted shots is very subjective. Underextracted shots often taste distinctly sour to me, and I don't know if that's the same thing that Jim calls "harsh."

As far as reducing the dose to correct underextraction goes: in my experience it's the finer grind that you use to maintain shot timing that increases the extraction yield. So, not "possibly" grind finer, "definitely" grind finer. If you keep the dose constant and grind finer you will obviously increase shot time and also increase extraction yield.

fwtechwiz wrote:So if I understand this correctly now, to adjust for an under extraction(harsh, bitter) you dose less, thus allowing for a more even extraction of the caramels and sugars, and possibly grind finer.

From what I experiment:
Over extraction is bitter and just before it you can feel the astringency.

Under extraction is sourness, lacking sweetness, aromatics.

I found that it's better to up the dose when you have an under-extraction to reach a better extraction.

When increasing the dose leads to un unbalance (muddy flavor, viscous and unbalance) Than grinding finer with the same dose will yield a better result. The dosing regarding of the fines is all about clarity of flavor.