Hello all,

I am probably going to be getting a new v3 silvia in about a week or so, and just wanted to ask a few questions. I know the answers to all these questions are scattered about, but i would love to try and consolidate them all.

1- can you keep the machine on during the (whole) day, and only turn it off at night (with water in the boiler, not steam)
2- do you necessarily need to quick-prime when you first start the machine or can you just wait for it to heat up without doing anything?
3- are there any tips to speed up heating up times?
4- how long would it take from turning on to be able and steam milk
5- how long would it take from steaming milk to brewing a shot and how long from brewing a shot to steaming milk (in case I wanted to do it opposite)


if anyone can answer these, this would be so much appreciated, so i can have an idea what i'm getting into.

thanks so much,
george

1- can you keep the machine on during the (whole) day, and only turn it off at night (with water in the boiler, not steam)
I wouldn't.

2- do you necessarily need to quick-prime when you first start the machine or can you just wait for it to heat up without doing anything?
You can just wait.

3- are there any tips to speed up heating up times?
Somewhere on CG there was some tricks, but they didn't speed thing up by much, IIRC.

4- how long would it take from turning on to be able and steam milk.
Roughly 15-30 min. (I haven't timed it on a v3.

5- how long would it take from steaming milk to brewing a shot and how long from brewing a shot to steaming milk (in case I wanted to do it opposite)
You can lower the temp almost instantly by venting all the steam. Flush and go. The wait from brew to steam is longer, of course, but again -- haven't tried with a v3.

GewoW wrote:1- can you keep the machine on during the (whole) day, and only turn it off at night (with water in the boiler, not steam)

Not recommended. There can be small losses of steam/water through the OPV, or through a drippy steam wand. Since the boiler does not autofill you run the risk of having a large portion the heating element exposed. This will shorten its life.

GewoW wrote:2- do you necessarily need to quick-prime when you first start the machine or can you just wait for it to heat up without doing anything?

If you refilled the boiler after your last steaming session, then I don't believe there is any need to prime it again.

GewoW wrote:3- are there any tips to speed up heating up times?

Tons. Personally, I prefer using the steam switch. (Link here).

GewoW wrote:4- how long would it take from turning on to be able and steam milk

Between 4 and 5 minutes. The boiler heats at a rate of around 50F per minute, give or take. Steaming temperature is at around 290F.

GewoW wrote:5- how long would it take from steaming milk to brewing a shot

Hard to say. If you don't care about getting the grouphead temp back to normal, then flushing water will bring the boiler temp down to brew temps in less than 1 minute. But not caring about the grouphead temp is a bad plan, IMO, and will result in high brew temps.

A possible exception would be if you turned on a cold machine, steamed the milk, and then returned to brew mode. My gut feel is that the grouphead temp might be about right under this scenario.

GewoW wrote:.. and how long from brewing a shot to steaming milk (in case I wanted to do it opposite)

90 seconds, depending on where you were on the temperature cycle when you flipped the steam switch. I prefer this sequence versus steam-first, brew-second.

(Oops, I see zin1953 has also posted answers....)

Jim

My only difference with Jim, and it's not that much of a difference, is that while you can pull a shot from a cold start sooner than 15-30 minutes (as Jim states), your machine will not yet be thermally stable.

Other than that particular "nit," we're agree with each other.

Actually, we don't disagree on this either .

The question I answered was "When can you steam milk?", and the answer of 4-5 minutes is probably OK. But brewing a shot after only 4-5 minutes of warm up would probably not have a happy ending.

An interesting question would be what kind of shot might you get if you did the 4-5 minutes warm up with the steam switch on, steamed your milk, flushed water through the group to cool off the boiler, and then pulled the shot? The group would probably still be a little below its stable temp, but maybe not far enough off to really spoil the shot.

Jim

Thanks guys for the input. I'm just trying to decide if I should go with the silvia, or something more expensive, in the HX range...still weighing the variables!

George, may I make a couple of observations?

In 21 days, you have gone from saying you "Need to decide between these 3 superautomatics", to asking "A few general questions about Silvia", to wondering about a "Rocket giotto or Expobar Office lever" (or Expobar Brewtus III) -- let alone seeking information about comparing between the "Mazzer Mini vs. Compak K3 Elite vs. Baratza Vario vs. Macap M4" . . .

Can I suggest something: take a deep breath. Stop. You are running all over the place and seem (to me, anyway) like you're getting dangerously close to information overload and losing focus . . .

When you're ready, think about the following questions:

1. What sort of drinks -- espresso, cappuccino, lattè -- will I be making most?
2. How many drinks will I need -- on a regular basis (i.e.: ignore when company comes over) -- to make back-to-back?
3. How many drinks, on average, will I make in a day? in a week?
4. What is my budget for both the machine and the grinder?

Answer these questions calmly and rationally before you start looking at any more equipment. Figure out your needs, share them with us (if you wish) and we can give you some more accurate recommendations for equipment that will suit your needs, rather than bouncing from one idea to another . . . I honestly think this will help.

Cheers,
Jason

Thank you Jason, you're completely correct. Let me explain.

I am one of the most thorough researchers when it comes to buying something, and this is why I almost never return anything and am always happy. I am also quite quick in finding my information (not tuting my own horn...I just waste a lot of time on it lol). This was an exception. I ended up buying the Titanium Plus superauto, and it basically produces hogwash...I hate it and am returning it. I will be losing 20% re-stocking, but I can't live with it...it's just not good. (it's great as far as a superauto goes though, but still...). I approached that the wrong way. I first decided that I was getting a superauto, and then I figured out which one...I didn't even consider a semi. Im a moron, I know...but you learn.

So now I want to get a semi-auto instead of a superauto because I would like to learn how to properly pull a shot, but I would still like to brew a shot as quick as I can.

My needs are:
1. mostly espresso, but a cappuccino here and there, when I'd like to relax and have a substantial drink. Others in the family will be having cappuccinos. (and lattes for that matter)
2. average back to back about 2 in the morning and 2 at night, max 3 and 3...as well as other single ones during the day.
3. in a day, average about 5-6. week avg about 40
4. budget for both is MAX 2200 CND. I WASTED 1400 on a superauto, so I can understand a little more in order to brew a drink that is in a completely different league!
4.1 Why is the budget so high? Because I do not want to have to upgrade in the next 10 years.

Also, I am excessively busy (med student) and so I would like to be able to prepare the drinks as fast as possible (this is actually the biggest reason why I bought a superauto). I was considering a silvia (seriously considering) but then i realized that:
a) it is not forgiving...everything needs to be perfect
b) quite hard to be consistend
c) quite a long learning curve
d) requires temperature surfing (or PIDing...which defeats the purpose of the price)
e) can not steam immediately after and must wait more than 2-3 mins between drinks
f) i honestly think that if I buy this, even though it will make infinitely better coffee than the superauto, I will get annoyed at how exacting it is, and at the fact that it isn't the quickest...

I then thought of HX machines with E61. They are a little more forgiving, and are commercially built (ish) and can handle a pounding. They will produce a better shot on a bad day, and a much better shot on a good one. They can also cope a little better with being on the whole day (or most of it). Unfortunately though, I have quite a limited selection in Canada, and so am forced to get it of one particular site, but which has good deals and is quite reputable. I am limited to expobars and rockets. This site also has the grinder I want, the Compak K3 doserless, and so I can strike some deal with them. Also, other sites are not authorized retailers...
I decided on this grinder for the following reasons
a) doserless means no cleaning the doser
b) i will be switching out beans for drip at least once a week
c) it is a very good grinder
d) it is at a very good price compared to others
e) even if there is clumping, I will use the WDT...so no biggy

I also decided not to buy locally as there is at least a 2-300$ difference, as well as the added 7.5% pst.

Back to the HX. I have basically a few choices. They are the following:
- Cellini Premium Plus + Compak
- Giotto Premium Plus + Compak - I do know, however, that the cellini is the giotto, just without the same exterior.
- Expobar office lever + Compak
- Expobar brewtus III-V + Compak...this is nice, as it has a double boiler, but is also 2400, not 22...So I would have to strike some deal or else this won't work. The good thing is the PID though (but isn't this redundant on an E61?)

Now, I heard great things about the Rockets. I also heard good things about the expobars, but I've been told that they do not have as good of a biuld quality as the rockets, and have read some reviews where many individuals needed to replace a few components within the first 1-3 years...I also heard the opposite from one of the individuals off the site I am looking at, who said that he has this set-up and thinks it's amazing. So I am really not sure. I also heard that the expobars lack steaming power, and to be honest, steaming power is quite important for me.

Lastly, I may be able to plumb it in, but I would rather not, as I'm not sure this will be possible...so I can't get a rotary pump (but this is quite expensive anyways).

One more thing to add. There is one other site which is an authorized e-tailer, but they have only Mazzer grinders, which are great and all, but are 100-200$ more than the Compak. They also don't have any models in the 1500-1700$ range other than the rockets...so pretty pointless. ALSO, they will not bargain either...they basically told me the price is fixed...

These are the sites:
- http://www.zcafe.ca (authorized, and is also a repair center with good return policies and great service - only rocket and expobar, but has the compak) - site will be updated soon to include the new rockets, not the old ECMs
- http://www.espressotec.com (authorized, but will not bargain and does not have the grinder i want. also, only had the rockets in my price range.
- http://www.creativecookware.com/coffee_machines.htm (i do not believe they are authorized, and they also don't have the grinder i want, and so I can not get a package deal)
- http://www.idrinkcoffee.com (i do not believe they are authorized either, and they don't have much...but they do have the grinder.


So? Can you help?

George,

In terms of grinders, for the price differential between the Mazzer Mini and the Compak K3 Touch, I'd certainly go for the Compak. But I wouldn't necessarily overlook the Baratza Vario . . .

As far as the machine itself is concerned, I had a bad experience with the build quality of an Expobar. But I must hasten to point out it was an "office" model, and not the Brewtus line. There are many satisfied customers of the Expobar Brewtus.

Given the discounts available in terms of the "package deals" that Zcafé is offering, I'd be tempted to snag the Giotto Premium + Compak K3 Touch for $2295. But that's me: I prefer the looks of the Giotto Premium over those of the Cellini, and if I'm going to have to look at it every morning . . .

Again, that's me.

Cheers,
Jason

The more and more I research, the moer I'm leaning towards the rockets. To be honest, I like the cellini too, and the 100$ price diff is not enough to make me get the giotto. Either way though...i don't know, it just seems better than the other HX machines out there, especially the steam power!