Hello everyone,
Long time reader, first time poster. Here's the issue. Just got my Brewtus IV about a week and a half ago from the the guys at WLL. I can't get it to go about 4 bar during the brew process. I have about a month old Baratza Vario and I had it perfect with my previous entry level espresso maker so I know it's not the
grind settings since I have had enough time to play and tweak the Vario which is great by the way. I have tried from very coarse to very,very fine and it won't go above 6 on the very fine setting(trying to choke the machine to get back pressure). On observation of the machine there's this water exhaust nozzle underneath the E61 grouphead that's releasing copious amounts of water from it. To me this nozzle seems to be the exhaust for the pressure relief valve (???). If it is seem to be leaking and my main suspect in the pressure issue. I used the blank disk to see if the OPV is doing its job and I get to the preset 10.5 bar limit set by the WLL guys so good here. I have called WLL TWICE and they tell me that this is normal. I have tried dosing from the standard 14grams in 25sec to 12-18grams in a very WIDE range of grind settings and tamp pressure and nothing which leads me to believe is the machine since I was doing great with the cheaper machine. I'm planning to make a video and post on uTube for you folks to see, let me know if that would be helpful. If you google Brewtus preinfusion you can see the WLL video and see the machine in action and see that there's no fluid coming out from the exhaust underneath the E61 group and that the machine reaches brew pressure even without the portafilter install so what gives!. Very excited to hear from the pro's here on possible causes, thanks!!

luis137 wrote:I used the blank disk to see if the OPV is doing its job and I get to the preset 10.5 bar limit...

In terms of the brew pressure behavior you observe, a blind basket behaves like a 100% "choked" extraction. Since the reading is 10.5 bar, that rules out a problem with the pump or the OPV, leaving only what takes the place of the blind basket: The coffee puck itself.

Is the espresso pouring forth profusely or only a dribble? If the former, the answer is either (a) grind finer, (b) dose more, (c) get fresher coffee, and/or (d) correct distribution to avoid channeling. If you only see a dribble/no flow from the grouphead and the brew pressure doesn't rise to ~10.5 bar as it did for the blind basket, I have no explanation.

You should clarify whether this is IV-P or IV-R and, if IV-P whether you are drawing from a reservoir or plumbed in.

However, that being said, it sounds as if you have a vibration pump drawing from the reservoir and that the lowermost valve in your grouphead (the exhaust valve) is leaking profusely - as if it were not even there. Give WLL another call and refer them to this thread.

HB wrote:Is the espresso pouring forth profusely or only a dribble? If the former, the answer is either (a) grind finer, (b) dose more, (c) get fresher coffee, and/or (d) correct distribution to avoid channeling. If you only see a dribble/no flow from the grouphead and the brew pressure doesn't rise to ~10.5 bar as it did for the blind basket, I have no explanation

My initial post was getting long so I didn't specify certain things so here is the rest. I live very close to Chicago so I usually get Intelligentsia Black Cat or the like. It was three days from roast when I got the machine, now more like almost two weeks stored in Vac-u-Bin. If I purposely choke the machine(almost Turkish setting with about 18grams of coffee I can probably get the famous 8 to 9 bars of pressure but of course no usable amount of coffee pre unit of time. I have tried different methods of distribution due the the different amounts of grams that I have used. I'm really thinking that if water comes out of a valve that it's only function is to RELIEVE excess pressure then there's a leak. Please correct this assumption if I'm incorrect, thanks.

erics wrote:You should clarify whether this is IV-P or IV-R and, if IV-P whether you are drawing from a reservoir or plumbed in.

Sorry, you are correct... This is the Brewtus IV with a vibe pump and it's drawing water(80-85TDS) from a reservoir.

Then, if you have ANY flow whatsoever from the bottom of the group (see red arrow in pic below) with the brew lever in the up (horizontal) position, your drain valve (exhaust valve) is leaking.



Certainly there will be exhaust from this location when you stop brewing - that is definitely normal.

Thanks Eric for chiming in... while we're looking at other possibilities, I have to ask: How does the espresso taste? Sometimes in our focus on the mechanic issues at hand, we ignore the more important consideration. If indeed the pressure is too low, the crema production should be close to nil and the taste should be flat.

luis137 wrote:I'm really thinking that if water comes out of a valve that it's only function is to RELIEVE excess pressure then there's a leak. Please correct this assumption if I'm incorrect, thanks.

See I still don't get it: Why adjust the OPV? and a few other topics under Vibratory Pumps in this forum's FAQs and Favorites.

Thanks Eric for chiming in... while we're looking at other possibilities, I have to ask: How does the espresso taste? Sometimes in our focus on the mechanic issues at hand, we ignore the more important consideration. If indeed the pressure is too low, the crema production should be close to nil and the taste should be flat.

In retrospect I basically what most of the knowledgeable people here say which is basically to get the grinder. That was a great idea an decision in the sense that the quality of the my coffee shot up incredibly after acquiring the Vario, even with my "el cheapo brand' espresso machine. Now with the Brewtus the cup is pretty close to what I used to have, which basically tells me that the Brewtus is invincible to my process(not really making it better). To really answer your question I would have to say that it's hit and miss. Sometimes I get
great results with crema production but not as I seen in many videos of this same machine on the internet. Definitely not as much crema as my "el cheapo', so I'm kind of baffled. My cup is sometimes superior to my old machine but I think is related mainly to the better quality milk frothing(I drink mainly lattes) that I get from Brewtus.

Just an update. I'm more of a visuals kind of person so I made a short video and posted it on YouTube for you guys to view if you so desire, here's the video:

Drain valve leak, it is.

Eric's diagram is an immense help and should give you a starting point: Disassembling/checking the drain valve and spring to ensure the proper seal and spring tension would be the first thing to check.