www.evocationcoffee.com: artisan roaster with passion for great coffee

Excessive water spray from vacuum valve

Postby JY on Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:19 pm

What's the cause of excessive water from a vacuum valve?

The valve on my Grimac Mini has been spraying enough to sometimes make a small puddle under the machine.

I haven't noticed particularly wet steam, so I don't think it's overfilling :?


Thanks,
Jim
User avatar
JY
 
Posts: 43
Joined: May 03, 2011
Location: Arlington, VA

Postby Randy G. on Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:28 pm

Remove the valve and soak it in descaler to be sure that it is working properly. If you are correct that the water level is correct, then the other reason for the spray might be that it is staying open too long when the machine is warming up.
Espresso! My Espresso!
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
User avatar
Randy G.
 
Posts: 2222
Joined: May 12, 2007
Location: Yankee Hill, CA
www.orphanespresso.com: lever espresso machine parts, manual grinders
www.orphanespresso.com: lever espresso machine parts, manual grinders

Postby JY on Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:03 pm

Randy G. wrote:Remove the valve and soak it in descaler to be sure that it is working properly. If you are correct that the water level is correct, then the other reason for the spray might be that it is staying open too long when the machine is warming up.


I'll give it a try, but I'm pretty sure it'll be clean. I recently stripped the entire machine down and manually descaled everything, changing most of the soft parts as well.
Is it possible I screwed the valve up when I took it apart? Are they adjustable?
The valve is exactly like this one:Image
User avatar
JY
 
Posts: 43
Joined: May 03, 2011
Location: Arlington, VA

Postby cannonfodder on Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:32 am

If you removed the breaker from the boiler, you could have a steam leak around the fitting. If the valve itself is leaking you will get water sputtering up from that pin in the middle top. If it is coming out from under the fitting, you have a steam leak from a fitting that is not sealed/tight on the boiler. There is a small rubber seal in there that seals up against the inside once the boiler pressure reaches a certain point. The rubber seal can scale or just harden and fail over time. These valves are inexpensive so I keep one in my parts bin as a spare. They are just as easy to replace as take apart and repair.
Dave Stephens
User avatar
cannonfodder
Team HB
 
Posts: 6812
Joined: May 23, 2005
Location: Downingtown PA

Postby JY on Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:19 am

I went ahead and ordered a new part, but wouldn't capping this off and just releasing pressure through the steam wand on startup accomplish the same thing?
I'm just thinking in terms of one less part that can potentially fail.

-Jim
User avatar
JY
 
Posts: 43
Joined: May 03, 2011
Location: Arlington, VA

Postby allon on Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:28 am

Yes, but it is a pain, and you have to consider the vacuum generated as the machine cools -- it can potentially suck milk crud from the steam wand into the boiler.
LMWDP #331
User avatar
allon
 
Posts: 1078
Joined: Apr 23, 2011
Location: Northern VA

Postby erics on Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:27 am

but wouldn't capping this off and just releasing pressure through the steam wand on startup accomplish the same thing?

It would, BUT at a price. There are a few machines built today, e.g., Salvatore and likely many built in former years without vacuum breaker valves. The warm-up routine was as you suggested with the addition of opening the steam wand when you shut the machine off for the day.

However, as an operating machine cools, a vacuum would be formed within the boiler and this can be detrimental to parts not designed for same (boiler pressure gages, pstat diaphrams) should the operator forget to open the steam wand valve.

The "line in the sand" - actually the boiler water level line where dry steam turns to wet steam is not always clear. Wet steam is called "carryover" and self describes water particles mixing with the steam due to a higher than "proper" water level.

In reassembling the machine, you just might have unintentionally placed the water level probe a tad higher than before.
Skål,

Eric S.
http://users.rcn.com/erics/
E-mail: erics at erols dot com
User avatar
erics
 
Posts: 2985
Joined: Aug 09, 2005
Location: Silver Spring, MD

Postby stefano65 on Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:41 pm

I will follow Eric good advise,

could also be a slow overfill, such as your 2 way solenoid is not completely close when ti should

also the longer style valve in relation to the standard anti-vacum always seam to spit more water out during warming up

also in some situation the heating element can Build heat faster than in some other (scale build up etc etc)
which will keep the anti-vacum in the opening/spitting state (before it build enough pressure to seal shut)
a little longer then it should
but this will not have anything to do with having a wet steam once the pressure is reached
Stefano Cremonesi
Stefano's Espresso Care
Repair & sales from Oregon.
User avatar
stefano65
 
Posts: 737
Joined: May 19, 2007
Location: Elmira (Eugene), OR

Postby JY on Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:44 pm

Hopefully the new valve will do the trick.

Thanks,
Jim
User avatar
JY
 
Posts: 43
Joined: May 03, 2011
Location: Arlington, VA


Return to Espresso Machines