Hey, all,

My recent discovery is that I'm not entirely broke. Which is to say it's probably about time I invest in temperature measurement equipment for my group.

I now have a PID Alexia and I am considering whether to get an EricS E-61 probe or a Scace device. I am guessing I would need a meter for either, which I'll figure out later. Any input is much appreciated about which device would best suit my needs:

My main goal is drinking better, more repeatable shots. I see this as two-fold: 1) I need feedback about PID temp and brew temp correlations, so I can better understand where a given bean likes to be. 2) I need on-going feedback during any series of pulls to help me understand what my current temperature is at the group, so I can adjust settings, or wait for a certain amount of time to pass before pulling the shot. I know my machine should be relatively temperature stable, but I am guessing there is some variation still between shots, and I would better like to have that feedback to know what my temp is for each pull.

I have read all 10 pages of this:
http://www.home-barista.com/revie...e-device-t453.html

...and all 5 pages of this:
http://www.home-barista.com/espre...-silvia-t1352.html

Can you believe I'm still not sure?!?!?! Because the Scace is not showing me the temperature during my actual shots, I was leaning towards the EricS. But, then the Scace sounds kick@#$ for best representing temp at the puck, and might be more transferable if I ever get a machine without an E-61.

Anyone wanna weigh in, or just send me to another link?

Thanks for your time.

I may be missing something, but isn't temp control the function of a PID? Why would you need a Scace or Eric's TC? Michael

Well, coming from a PID Silvia, I always felt that a PID was just the first step, providing a consistent temp at the boiler. But, even with that variable under control, temperature inconsistencies could still result along the brew path due to longer idle periods, ambient temperature changes, etc. I know that the Alexia is supposed to be more temperature stable along the brew path, but I would suspect that some variations do occur, especially with the E-61 being an exposed group, subject to changes in ambient temperature.

Therefore, I was looking for a device to help me better understand these variations in temperature and help me better understand my machine and when to pull the shot for a given bean.

Jeff covered temperature stability / usage in his review and the Bench research has more detail, should you have difficulty sleeping later tonight. You could get a thermocouple adapter or Scace thermofilter for the PID'd Alexia to satisfy your curiosity, but I don't believe it would improve your espresso.

It would be a mistake to compare a PID'd Rancilio Silvia to the PID'd Quickmill Alexia; Silvia's brew temperature profile isn't nearly as flat, and varies more under load or when idle. In our tests, the Alexia was ready to brew quickly and only got better. The only caveat being that 90 seconds is required between shots for maximum reproducibility (you can get away with one back-to-back at 30 seconds, but no more).

Hope you don't mind me saying this, but I think you should put your wallet away and learn to trust your taste. It's cheaper and more accurate in the long run.

HB wrote:Hope you don't mind me saying this, but I think you should put your wallet away and learn to trust your taste. It's cheaper and more accurate in the long run.

If you want to follow Dan's advice without putting your wallet away, Le Nez Du Café is a very fun tool to help learn to identify and describe flavors, but especially to remember them. It's about the price of the Scace device.

Just an idea. I've had the opportunity to play with one, and I'd love to get one, just not for $250. Honestly, most of the benefit is probably exhausted after a few weeks. But then, that's probably true of a Scace device, too, if you're only using one machine.

Eric and Dan,

Thank you both so much for the honesty of both your replies This helps a lot. I think what I'll do is stick it out with Alexia for a while before I go for Eric or Scace equipment. See what I think since I only spent three days with the new machine so far. And then if I decide to nerd it out, I'll be revisiting this thread. In the mean time, I will definitely be looking at the threads Dan posted. That may help me decide. It would be nice to know what temp I have at the PF....for instance when I pick up whatever bean from Blue Bottle, and they say pull this bean at 202 F, usually I'm like "Hey, great," but then I have no real idea of how to utilize that info. But as was suggested, maybe merely follow my taste buds for now. I think I have some of those around here somewhere.

thanks again,

Jon

Nicholas - Sweet! Le Nez du Cafe would involve some real commitment. Something maybe best learned in a class setting, or private lessons. Hmmmm....I've never seen that before, and probably also won't spend my money on it, but I will give it a thorough read.

Jon, not to derail your thread on temperature probes, I will make it short--you definitely don't need a classroom, or much guidance, to use the kit. Bottles are numbered, and there is a card that matches the number to the scent in the bottle (e.g. hazelnut, rubber, earth...). You can hide the card to quiz yourself without the help of anyone else. As for descriptions... they come easily. Many of the scents elicit very strong memories for me (e.g., smelling honeysuckle blooms hanging from rock walls by the sidewalk on the way to school). Not saying it's "worth it" for the average home user, but it was a heck of a lot of fun without any particular guidance.

Honestly, I wish I could get one of those tasting kits. That is precisely the kind of thing a budding artist needs. Price...dang I keep looking at the price. Ow. There it is again.

Jon -

Here's another idea to chew on: proceed now with purchasing a thermocouple thermometer (or write to a guy you know in Lexington to see about borrowing one). You can then remove the M6 hex socket cap screw on the group (temporarily), and poke a bead thermocouple into the hole. Stuff a little wad o' paper towel, tissue, etc. around the t/c lead to seal things up a little. Let the Alexia warm up with PF in place.

On my Alexia, if I adjust the PID so that the group temp idles at 196F, my shots will consistently run between 199F and 200F, which is what I like. During the summer, a PID setpoint of 222F generally accomplishes this. This winter, while the kitchen temps are down around 67F, I've raised the setpoint to 224F.

BTW, replace the M6 screw before running water through the group

Jim