Hi guys,

even with the wire in place the new (the one I have) versions of the shower screen will flash-boil, but shouldn't spray as much. You can't really do anything about the hissing/spitting but with less overspray it should be safer and less messy.

Regards,
dsc.

I figured I might as well post a quick update. I'm gathering more pieces of my PID kit together. Right now, I am only waiting on the fitting and my project box. The project box should be here early next week; as I mentioned before, the fitting will likely be another couple of weeks. Alas, that's the price of custom made parts. On the plus side, they're only charging me about $15 for the stainless part. I was originally going to just get the brass version for $6, but the wait on that was 7-8 weeks vs. 3-4 for the stainless, so, impatient as I am, I ordered both of them. Hopefully, if the stainless one works well, I won't have any trouble finding a home for the brass one.

Anyway, I've found a dose of the Cuvée Meritage Blend that I like on the Elektra. It's not as wonderful of a shot as I remember on Vetrano, but it makes a sublime cappuccino. Here's a pretty good one in the works, with pants on:



Speaking of getting "pimp" gear, I ordered that La Marzocco open spout from EPNW, along with another battery of supplies. Among them was the classic E61 portafilter assembly, which cost about $15 with the mounting hardware:

one wishes a bit for an end cap of some kind, but it's kind of cool

This was for the spare portafilter body I had after purchasing a new Elektra portafilter body (pictured above). I've repurposed this portafilter to backflush duty.

There's still much to do with this machine before it can qualify as an ULTIMATE ELEKTRA EXTREME ESPRESSO MACHISMO MACHINE, but the 'spro is flowing for now, so my patience is running high. I've just about decided that I want to install a probe in the M4 screw on the brewpath of the grouphead, and I'm contacting Beswick Engineering about getting a few of their miniscule compression fittings designed for just that opening.

Do not forget to ask Beswick to bore those fittings through for you. They will, MAYBE, do it gratis if you ask in the kindest possible way. I BELIEVE you can utilize Swagelok 1/16" nylon ferrules in the Beswick fittings.

Sounds like a potential "group buy".

PID work sounds interesting. I remember all the things I was going to do, but after polishing all that stainless steel I was more interested in some sweet espresso payback. I guess when they start working on my kitchen (if/when we decide what we want to have done) I'll have some time to think about it.

Which fitting are you using to place the thermocouple?

BTW: Does a PID stop if the thermocouple becomes an open circuit?

Mark

Eric: thanks for the advice, I'll be sure and check with Beswick before I order. I am planning on buying several at this point, depending on the price. I should be able to hook up some other people with a "kit" for the price of the parts, after I finish. I'm getting a spare 1/16" probe as well, though I may keep it (hah, or use it after I break the first one!).

Mark: For the boiler connection, I just ordered Swagelok fitting SS-200-7-4RG-BT (BT=bored through) The bored through part is part of the reason why it's taking quite awhile. I also got B-200-7-4RG-BT, which, you guessed it, is the brass version. This is a 1/4" female BSP fitting that will attach to the boiler at the male 1/4" BSP fitting where the pressurestat normally goes. It's for attaching a 1/8" thermocouple. Eric advised getting a T setup where you could have the both the thermocouple and the pressurestat on, with the latter as a safety device (set it very high so it's always closed unless the pressure hits ~1.3-1.4 bar). I thought this was a good idea, but I don't really trust my old pressurestat. I might look into such an arrangement in the future.

As for the thermocouple mount on the grouphead, I am looking to mount one like this. The part you see there is a modified Beswick fitting, this one, but bored through as Eric mentioned. I believe that is the photostream of our own Brad Seaman, who sadly passed away last year. I believe that most Elektra A3/T1 owners are aware of the mods he did to his machine, in particular the excellent insulation job.

Hi Nicholas,

I see more gear being ordered, nice (being the gear-maniac I am)

What project box did you order if I may ask? I'm planing to get something which will hold two PIDs, one for the group and one for the boiler, I'm just not sure where I will fit it.

Any chance of ordering another SS fitting from Swagelok? I'd love to get one but the idea of waiting 7 weeks for it (probably moire like 8-9 with the shipping to the UK) isn't making me happy. I will do some research here and see how the prices compare to the US ones.

Regards,
dsc.

Tom,

Yeah, I kind of figured that I'd go all out with this project... Even if it is a "crutch" (kind of like how a double boiler is a "crutch?"), I'm missing my PID readout from the grouphead. I guess I enjoyed the decreased attention required to flush to a temperature rather than count off. Ultimate lazy, yes?

I've contacted Swagelok about expanding my order, and I'll get back to you via e-mail. I'll also have a couple of other cheaper brass spares for anyone else who wants to get in on this, though naturally I won't have those till late February, vs. the end of this month for the SS ones. I'm still not sure if the additions to my order will be able to piggyback without additional delay from the original order--I'll find out before long.

My project box is just a Hammond extruded aluminum box, about the smallest I could find that'd still fit the PID comfortably. I've yet to decide if I want to buy a bigger one to house two PIDs, or house them separately. I'm probably going to buy a bigger one and save the single-PID box for, you know, when I get my 1 lb. antique sample roaster... right.

Mark: I realized that I missed your question about PID behavior when the TC malfunctions or is disconnected (either open/short circuit). I believe that you can program the behavior of PIDs when the readings are outside of the "expected" range. I know that you can add alarm devices. If you're clever you could probably hook up something to open the heating element circuit when the temperature reading is below, say, 32F or above 260F. I'm not near my PID manual, but I bet you can simply program it to kill the heater when the TC input is out of range.

shadowfax wrote:Tom,
Yeah, I kind of figured that I'd go all out with this project... Even if it is a "crutch" (kind of like how a double boiler is a "crutch?"), I'm missing my PID readout from the grouphead. I guess I enjoyed the decreased attention required to flush to a temperature rather than count off. Ultimate lazy, yes?

I just use the button on the far right to flush.

shadowfax wrote:I've contacted Swagelok about expanding my order, and I'll get back to you via e-mail. I'll also have a couple of other cheaper brass spares for anyone else who wants to get in on this, though naturally I won't have those till late February, vs. the end of this month for the SS ones. I'm still not sure if the additions to my order will be able to piggyback without additional delay from the original order--I'll find out before long.

I'd be interested in the stainless steel part for the group head and the rest of the stuff too. I wonder if the front hex bolt could be made slightly more accessible and still have it look good.

shadowfax wrote:Mark: I realized that I missed your question about PID behavior when the TC malfunctions or is disconnected (either open/short circuit). I believe that you can program the behavior of PIDs when the readings are outside of the "expected" range. I know that you can add alarm devices. If you're clever you could probably hook up something to open the heating element circuit when the temperature reading is below, say, 32F or above 260F. I'm not near my PID manual, but I bet you can simply program it to kill the heater when the TC input is out of range.

Leaving the pstat in the circuit is sufficient.

mhoy wrote:I just use the button on the far right to flush.

Really? I finally programmed one of the dosing buttons to do a flush from idle, and then programmed another one to do a typical flush for a second or third shot. This seems to work, but I don't trust it, so I still count. My third dosing button is programmed to dose enough to backflush with a blind filter in place. I use the button on the right to brew manually.

mhoy wrote:Leaving the pstat in the circuit is sufficient.

If you are planning on doing this, it's worth noting that the Swagelok fitting (SS or brass) will be of no use to you... You'll need to get a totally different set of fittings.

As for the fitting on the grouphead, yes, I think you could easily route the probe in such a way as to retain easy access to the hex screws that mount the group bell. I certainly plan to, as I quite enjoy that feature of the Elektra grouphead... enhanced serviceability.

I thought I'd post a quick update to my Elektra progress. On Tuesday, the first Swagelok fitting came in, and I was finally ready to install PID control on the machine. For now, the project box is next to the machine, because my tall legs are still under construction--they need to be cut to length and polished.


Boiler on the left, group on the right.

The installation was reasonably easy. The fitting I used was the stainless one, with a 6" probe that's curved down slightly so that it's below the water level in the boiler:



I thought about where to put the SSR for awhile, and I am not entirely sure I am happy with where it is. I was originally going to put it in the "lion's den," i.e. the inside of the machine, but it gets darn hot in there, and I couldn't find a spot to mount it that I liked. Putting the heat sink under the machine would be a good idea, but I don't think that the steel frame would transfer heat well, being extremely thick and powdercoated.

So I put the heat sink on the back of the large project box like so:


It's attached to the heat sink through the aluminum backplate.

My initial impression is that this works fairly well. You can see I've kept my eye on it in the picture above, with the probe set against the backplate of the sink. It gets to about 52C on the plate in the morning when it warms up, which bothers me a bit. On the other hand, it idles at about 30C, which seems alright to me. I am getting a "nicer" Omron SSR (currently using a 25A SSR from Auber) to see if it will work any better. If not, then I'll probably just look into ventilating the box. The box itself seems to be reasonably cool, and I assume the inside temperature is good--it's not cramped at all, and I understand the SSR radiates most of its heat through the bottom.

I've found that a setpoint of 242F on the PID gets me right in the neighborhood of 0.8-0.85 bar on my meter. I am not sure if that's an indicator that the meter is inaccurate or not.


Grouphead idles right around brew temperature at this setting--201-205, depending on the weather (it drops when you blow on it, hah!)



I like the steaming power here alright, and the flushing is tolerable. Speaking of flushing, this thing is certainly handy:


I have a source for a Scace device, so I should be able to figure the rough offset soon.

I think it looks pretty good. Not near as obtrusive on the design as the E61 version. I also routed it to the right immediately out of the fitting, so that I can pull the bell without it getting in my way.

Finally, I got a new steam tip to try out, the "custom" EPNW tip for La Marzoccos. I was curious to try a tip that could slow heating of about 3 oz. of milk to greater than 13-15s, and also something easier to keep clean (I hate the stupid slots in the stock tip). I am not sure if this is the tip I am looking for, but it's alright:



Sorry for the lack of action shots. I've been enjoying it a bit too much to interrupt the zen of it all to take pictures...

Looks gorgeous, Nicholas.

shadowfax wrote:I've found that a setpoint of 242F on the PID gets me right in the neighborhood of 0.8-0.85 bar on my meter. I am not sure if that's an indicator that the meter is inaccurate or not.

242F corresponds to about 0.77 bar. It's likely that the thermocouple is more accurate than the gauge.

Wow, nicely done and you can get to each of the 3 hex bolts on the group head. I had thought the inside of the machine on the bottom should be 'relatively' cool on an insulated machine. Not that I've ever bothered to measure it.

Mark

Thanks for the compliment, Andy; it means a lot, coming from you. I'm 100% serious when I say that, but on the other hand, I'm also being 100% sarcastic...

mhoy wrote:Wow, nicely done and you can get to each of the 3 hex bolts on the group head. I had thought the inside of the machine on the bottom should be 'relatively' cool on an insulated machine. Not that I've ever bothered to measure it.

You know, I need to stick my probe on the bottom to see. I think it'd be OK if the frame weren't powdercoated steel; SSR's depend heavily on some form of heat sink to dissipate the significant heat they generate. The one I have now is rated to operate up to 70C, so it technically is operating well within that range even at startup. I just think you extend its life by a good bit when you keep it cooler. Again, steel is a poor conductor, and the powdercoating will really stop the efficient heat transfer, so you'd have to scrape/sand it off, or mount the whole heat sink and SSR inside the machine, but at that point it starts taking up a lot more space...

Considering all that, I don't think I could do much better without putting the SSR in its own box. At this point, I'm just going to try the Omron SSR, and if it heats up as much, then I'll start cutting holes in the side and bottom of the project box to ventilate it.

Looks outstanding, but I think you could use a bigger grinder to be honest. It's not big enough until the surface of your table starts to leave a permanent impression

In all seriousness, that's a beautiful setup. Congrats.

ChadTheNomad wrote:Looks outstanding, but I think you could use a bigger grinder to be honest. It's not big enough until the surface of your table starts to leave a permanent impression

Point me to a bigger one. I already kinda wish I'd gotten the 3-phase...

Your setup looks pretty good, but I have to ask why go through the trouble of the compression fitting in the group head and everything when you could just route a fine gauge tc between the two pieces of the group and run it through the inside of the machine? It's just as accurate, invisible, and cheaper. I pretty much followed the method Bob Barraza proposed and it worked fine. I disconnected the honeywell controller I was using to monitor the temps because it looked silly and I had my flush regimen figured out. The TC is still in place, but not connected to anything.

Now I don't really think about temp in degrees, I just deterimine if I like a blend cold, sort of cold, normal, warm or hot and can hit the temps pretty well. If my p-stat ever goes, I probably will switch over to pid control just because the cost would be negligible and the silence would be a perk, but I doubt it would improve my shots.

Edit: What do you use to clean/polish your Elektra? It looks amazing!

Ben, I have 2 reasons for not doing that: First, in my mind I don't like the idea of running the wire across the gasket. I know that it will work (obviously), but it just seems to me that it would create a weak point in the gasket seal. The other reason is I didn't like the idea of the TC being so exposed in the brew path. That said, I would say it's arguably a more accurate gauge of actual brew temperature than my own installation, and certainly a cheaper arrangement. My probe was $38, and the Beswick fitting is $17. I am sure you could get a good fine gauge probe for all of $20.

You're also right that it's probably somewhat superfluous on such a stable machine, after the novelty dies off. Alas, I am a curious creature, and I think it will still ultimately expand possibilities in terms of increasing consistent temps across inconsistent usage patterns.

As for cleaning the Elektra, I use the prohibitively expensive method of a wet rag and a very slightly damp towel--damp just enough that it wipes up water spots, but not too wet that it leaves any--you know, about as damp as a towel gets after drying a couple of cups. Then I just press firmly with my hand against the machine. Simple and effective (for me).

Microfiber, get yourself a microfiber towel at Wal-Mart. It works wonders at keeping the shiny parts shiny.

Your Elektra is looking fantastic. I've always loved the style of the sixties series machines. Great work!

Wow Nicholas... Again very impressive! But isn't the boiler in the T1 pretty massive? How long does it take to reach temperature from a cold start. You may have mentioned this but it is late and I am somewhat delirious...