mhoy wrote:The part number is stamped into the brass and I can't read it.

47702

Mark, I think that your pump is aftermarket. Judging by the look of your machine before you gave it some love, I am sure it went through a pump replacement. I think that Elektra pumps all have a custom sticker over the bearing/shaft cover, that has their logo on it:



I believe this is a Rotoflow (Fluid-O-Tech) pump, but I am not sure. Stefano, do you know?

My machine is still in pieces. I've been busy helping a friend work on his car (putting a late-1990s M3 engine into a 1980s 325i... he will be driving well over the speed limit if he ever finishes it!). Today, he cut my beat-up portafilters out; now I have two nicely cut (on a rotary table) bottomless Elektra portafilters. I also got to put the portafilter handles on the lathe and have a go at them. They have a couple of minor scratches that would require a lot more work than I care to do to get out, but they look super-glossy after a little time at ~1800 rpm covered in high-gloss polishing compound. I also got some MAAS polish and have been buffing my metal pieces. Tomorrow I hope to finally touch up the frame and make my insulation template.

P.S. This is one of the most amusing things I have seen today:

mhoy wrote:http://www.adernet.com/hydropure/

Led Zeppelin in MIDI. On a professional web site. Willy Nilly. Classic.

shadowfax wrote:I believe this is a Rotoflow (Fluid-O-Tech) pump, but I am not sure. Stefano, do you know?

Since it is physically identical to the brand new Rotoflow/F-O-T pump I just received the other day I would say that's a pretty good guess.

Has anyone opened one of these up to see what they use for a seal on the output shaft? There seem to be a number of these pumps leaking within 1-2 years which isn't much of a service life.

John,

Which part do you want to see? The shaft area? It appears to turn on a sealed bearing at the point where you can see the pump shaft enter the pump body. I am going to assume that this is not a pressure-bearing bearing, though. IIRC, there are several bearings (more than 2) on rotary pumps.

I wish I could take my old one apart. Unfortunately, it seems to be secured by a lid that is threaded on and requires a special tool to remove. I might be able to rig something up to do this job, if my machinist friend has time to lend a hand.

The Elektra is back together. I haven't had a chance to snap any pictures of her with her cover and lid on yet, but you can see the pictures on my Flickr Set, along with descriptions of some of the obstacles I came up against.

you can see that my bent tap lever replacements went well; now I have straight steam/water tap handles!



I've also insulated the boiler with good old melamine foam. Seems to be working well so far, it keeps the thing a little tame in terms of heat dissipation:



One thing that is rather disappointing is how difficult it is to tame the rattling on this machine. The pump really gets the whole frame vibrating, and I had a heck of a time finding vibrations and padding them.

After all that, now I can hear the end of the water dance distinctly, at least. That's a plus. In the future I can really, really see myself looking into mounting the pump externally, on massive rubber feet.

The espresso has been horrible so far. That's disappointing, but not surprising. I haven't had enough coffee to make very much until this evening, and I've been preoccupied with silencing her a little bit. I think I overflushed at first, and the Robur seems to be set way too tight, even at a light dose. The pump pressure is registering 9.5 bars against a blind filter basket... That seems like it's on the high end, so it surprises me that I would need to loosen the grind vs. Vetrano. With this high flow rate pump and lack of preinfusion, I would have guessed quite the opposite.

The one thing that is quite funny is that all the pours have been nearly picture-perfect, albeit super-ristretto slow. I was worried that Elektra would coax some ugly pours out of the Robur. One of the first ones had some minor channeling late in the shot (just flourishes, no spritzes), but that's to be expected, I think, from a 50 second shot. This is encouraging to me--I have some hope that once I get the brew pressure set right and get the hang of flushing technique for this monster, I will have no trouble getting superb shots.

One potential pitfall in my learning this machine is the pressurestat. It seems to have a deadband of 0.3-0.4 bars. I'd rebuild the thing, but at this point I think I am going to live with it until I can set my PID up. I have the Fuji PXR3 and an SSR. I'm working on getting a Swagelok fitting to mount the TC in the boiler, based on Eric's excellent help, so hopefully that will be done by the end of the month at the latest. I also need a project box, a heat sink for the SSR, and to decide on where to mount the PID box (and what box to get, for that matter).

This is shaping up to be a fun project. Certainly a number of frustrations, but I think ultimately this will be more fun for me than just getting a brand new machine.

shadowfax wrote:One thing that is rather disappointing is how difficult it is to tame the rattling on this machine. The pump really gets the whole frame vibrating, and I had a heck of a time finding vibrations and padding them.

I found that my pump was slightly touching the back frame, I moved the frame vs the pump and it now clears by the width of two playing cards. It's now WAY quieter.

I also placed small pieces of rubber where ever loose parts come together. Drip tray, under drip tray, top covers, etc. Cork may work better as I found that one of the plastics I picked has a melting point around that of a hot espresso machine.

Mark

shadowfax wrote:the Robur seems to be set way too tight, even at a light dose. The pump pressure is registering 9.5 bars against a blind filter basket... That seems like it's on the high end, so it surprises me that I would need to loosen the grind vs. Vetrano. With this high flow rate pump and lack of preinfusion, I would have guessed quite the opposite.

Lack of preinfusion requires coarser grind, in my experience. High pump pressure also has a slight tendency to require coarser grind.

Beautiful job you're doing.

PS: Will the plastic cable ties used to hold on the insulation crack and fail in the heat?

mhoy wrote:I found that my pump was slightly touching the back frame, I moved the frame vs the pump and it now clears by the width of two playing cards. It's now WAY quieter.

I also placed small pieces of rubber where ever loose parts come together. Drip tray, under drip tray, top covers, etc. Cork may work better as I found that one of the plastics I picked has a melting point around that of a hot espresso machine.

Mark

Dan K. mentioned in an old post that one of the main sources of vibration was the cover under the drip tray and he was right. I've put some rubber between the end part (furthest away from the front of the machine) of this cover and the incoming water hose and it made all the difference in the world.

Is the motor/pump assy rubber mounted on the Elektra?

shadowfax wrote:John,

Which part do you want to see? The shaft area? It appears to turn on a sealed bearing at the point where you can see the pump shaft enter the pump body. I am going to assume that this is not a pressure-bearing bearing, though. IIRC, there are several bearings (more than 2) on rotary pumps.

I wish I could take my old one apart. Unfortunately, it seems to be secured by a lid that is threaded on and requires a special tool to remove. I might be able to rig something up to do this job, if my machinist friend has time to lend a hand.

I'd like to see what it looks like inside, how they keep the water from leaking out by the shaft & if the seal is replaceable. If you don't use it & wouldn't mind sending it up to CT. I could open it up & post some pics. I have some adjustable pin wrenches so removing the cover shouldn't be a problem. It would be interesting to see what kind of damage, if any, these pumps suffer when they get scaled up inside. If its not a big deal to remove the cover opening them up for a thorough cleaning when they get scaled up should accomplish more then just pouring some solution in & hoping for the best.

JohnB. wrote:Is the motor/pump assy rubber mounted on the Elektra?

Yes. You can vaguely see the right side mount in this picture:



The pump motor is mounted on 2 brackets that are formed from cutting and bending the frame inwards. There's a thick, round rubber gasket that fits between the motor and the mounting bracket. I would need to procure or manufacture my own mounting system to outboard the pump, though.

As far as the pump is concerned, I think I am going to keep it for myself. I will try to take it apart and post pics later in the month. After that I hope to get it rebuilt and keep it for a spare. In the meantime, this picture from a post by Dan might help:



It's a procon pump, but I would be surprised if the internal differences were particularly significant between this and a F-O-T pump. It appears to be sealed by the inner 2 bearings which are compressed by that spring-loaded assembly labeled "mechanical seal assembly."

Well, today brought some excellent espresso. I'm borrowing a Fluke that belongs to a friend of mine. I'd love to borrow a Scace device from someone to check out how the flushing works, but for now I have a single basket with a hole drilled in it, and the probe snaking up through the spout of the portafilter and hole in the basket. This is pretty useless for simulating shots like a Scace device, but it does give me a good idea of how fast the temperature declines after the flash boiling subsides during the cooling flush.

Anyhow, the machine is quite beautiful on the counter; she makes the Robur look a little less outrageously huge. This thing makes me sort of wish that I had invested in a larger espresso counter... but overall the space is adequate:



Elektra is indeed a pretty dramatic flash boiler when flushed after an idle period:


Lots of spray

I've noticed that my shot distribution method that worked well on Vetrano is not so hot on the Elektra, producing shots that begin radially, at least at the beginning:



It evens out after a few seconds, but it's clear that I need to alter my distribution technique to move more coffee out towards the perimeter of the basket. I can definitely see why a convex tamper might work a little better on the Elektra; the dispersion favors flow towards the outer edges of the puck, rather than the center.

Anyway, shots tend to come together pretty nicely after the less-than-stellar beginnings:



I believe this particular shot was one of the doubles I pulled today. The clarity is very noticeably better than all but the very best shots I've had from Vetrano. They also lean towards higher acidity so far. Most of the doubles I've had of this Gunslinger Espresso from Hopson Coffee have had a nice citrus acidity with a cool menthol note, which is really interesting. This flavor really dominates the lower tones of the shots, and they have a pleasant sweetness to them. The menthol and citrus come through nicely in short milk drinks, too:


The crema is awful because we took several sips of this one before I poured the milk.

Steaming is incredible. It's so easy to get great texture out of this, in a real hurry at that. Sometimes I get mid-size bubbles that I can't tap away, but even with them the texture is just totally fluid even with heavier foam, makes for easier art.

After we had our fun with doubles, I got out the Synesso triple basket and made some ristrettos:



They were extremely mild; it was bizarre. The acidity diminished noticeably, but the chocolate didn't really flare up to take its place. They were fairly pleasant as straight shots, balanced but a little boring and too mild. Predictably, they were horrible in milk... it tasted like drinking hot milk.

This is really shaping up to be a lot of fun!

Your Elektra is looking so very, very nice. If a machine has soul, I'd say it's much happier now with you treating it right.

Mark
BTW: Great pix.

Thanks for the kind words. I agree with you about machines, I think this one was sadly uncleaned and more or less left for dead for quite some time (hence the dead pump). It was in a "high end lighting store" that was sold to this guy, and it came with the store. I'm sure it was mostly in service for people that were making espresso.

I am sure that our T1s are much happier being beautifully restored and seeing daily use by someone with a passion for great coffee. I really find that I sympathize with old, beat up machines. I LOVE reading about and seeing pictures of machine restorations; It makes me happy to see something that is old and mistreated have new life breathed into it. It's really impressive how many machine restorations have been documented on this site. Here's some of my favorites:

• Reviving Futurmat Ariete
• La Marzocco Linea 1 AV Rebuild
• Elektra T1 - another one joining the Elektra gang
• Elektra T1 - #771 built in 2000 is now mine
• Restoration of an Olympia Cremina (epic!)

The funny part is that's not even the half of it. You could almost move these threads all into a sub-forum dedicated to restorations!

Hi Nicholas,

really nice work on that Elektra, I'm sure she's happy with you, making espresso and frothing milk. Just look out when waking her up from a deep sleep, she can breath fire I tell ya!;)

Now I'm only curious how long it's going to stay so shiny:)

Many happy pulls!

Regards,
dsc.

dsc wrote:Just look out when waking her up from a deep sleep, she can breath fire I tell ya!;)

Ha, I know. Can you see the blurry sidespray in my flushing pic? It's not as obvious in the small pic, but it's noticeable in the full size picture. It seems to spray droplets out at a ~45° angle when it's flash boiling, and it spreads a ton. I wish that I could put a portafilter on for the flush, but it makes it too difficult to hear the end of the flash boiling.

Now I'm only curious how long it's going to stay so shiny:)

I have a serious case of OCD. It will be shiny for quite awhile.

I've ordered the Swagelok fitting to mount a thermocouple to the boiler, and ordered a 6" and 12" long, 1/8" thick transition joint thermocouples. The swagelok fitting will take about a month to get, unfortunately. At least I will probably have everything else ready by then for a PID.

I still need to bend or otherwise modify the rear piece that holds the boiler inlet solenoid and the pressurestat so that it's not making contact with the pump motor, and I have another nuisance that I'd really like to solve:

Why is it such a pain in the butt to take off the cover? I've seen that newer Elektras are blessed with having their covers affixed to the frame by 4 slotted screws that are readily removable. My 1999 Elektra has 4 ~5mm studs welded onto the cover where those holes should be, and then you have to fit these studs over the holes in the frame, and thread the washer and locknut onto the stud from inside the machine. Needless to say, this is easy for the top two, and a monumental pain on the bottom two, because you have to take the front panel off to get to them, which in turn requires removing the drip tray and the electronics shield below it, because you can't just pull the front panel straight off--you have to slide it under the %$#@ group solenoid, because they fit the panel so friggin' tight around it. I don't think Tom can appreciate what a pain this is, as he doesn't appear to have the same front panel, but I think Mark's is the same as mine. Mark, any bright ideas?

I think I am going to drill out the studs from the cover, buy a set of slotted screws and matching locking nuts, and then JB Weld those nuts to the frame, effectively copying the newer design, so that I can get this stupid cover off without going berserk. Anyone got any better ideas to relieve my stress, perhaps something less... invasive?

Thanks to everyone for all the help...

shadowfax wrote: because you can't just pull the front panel straight off--you have to slide it under the %$#@ group solenoid, because they fit the panel so friggin' tight around it. I don't think Tom can appreciate what a pain this is, as he doesn't appear to have the same front panel, but I think Mark's is the same as mine. Mark, any bright ideas?

I feel your pain, I ripped the discharge silicon tube when putting the front panel back once... and I found out about it the hard way... when pulling a shot afterwards.

shadowfax wrote:Can you see the blurry sidespray in my flushing pic? It's not as obvious in the small pic, but it's noticeable in the full size picture. It seems to spray droplets out at a ~45° angle when it's flash boiling, and it spreads a ton. I wish that I could put a portafilter on for the flush, but it makes it too difficult to hear the end of the flash boiling.

A bottomless PF helps to reduce spray from the HX flush, without muffling the sound nearly as much as a regular PF.

Beautiful machine, great restoration, lots of fun to watch your progress.

John and Dan, thanks for the compliments. Dan--I hope your birthday is around the corner.

SylvainMtl wrote:I feel your pain, I ripped the discharge silicon tube when putting the front panel back once... and I found out about it the hard way... when pulling a shot afterwards.

Snap! I did that too, although I didn't find out the hard way, luckily. I had to run to home depot to get some replacement tube, because the tube on the machine was so old it was kind of coming apart. I had it rip twice during the rebuild when I was taking it off (of each end), and by the third rip, it was too short to span the length from the main drain tube to the solenoid outlet.

I can really see why this machine garners a "9" on materials and workmanship; I think I would only grant that score to the more recent models (with the solenoid valve cover and wider opening for the solenoid valve on the front panel, not to mention the normal slotted screw access to the machine cover); the machine in my possession I would give a solid 8.0. It's better than a high-end E61 in terms of quality, but the way the body panels fit together is clearly in sore need of a rethink, which, again, they seem to have done since they made mine.

I guess that adds another dimension to this project for me. I would like to modify it so that I can get to what I want in terms of repair/maintenance/tweaking, fast. I won't like this machine much if I have to do the macarena in a test tube to change the brew pressure.

shadowfax wrote:I have a serious case of OCD. It will be shiny for quite awhile.

After you've spent a couple of days polishing, you'll likely keep it shiny.

shadowfax wrote:I've ordered the Swagelok fitting to mount a thermocouple to the boiler, and ordered a 6" and 12" long, 1/8" thick transition joint thermocouples. The swagelok fitting will take about a month to get, unfortunately. At least I will probably have everything else ready by then for a PID.

Why would a smaller dead band help that much on a HX machine?

shadowfax wrote:Why is it such a pain in the butt to take off the cover? I've seen that newer Elektras are blessed with having their covers affixed to the frame by 4 slotted screws that are readily removable. My 1999 Elektra has 4 ~5mm studs welded onto the cover where those holes should be, and then you have to fit these studs over the holes in the frame, and thread the washer and locknut onto the stud from inside the machine. Needless to say, this is easy for the top two, and a monumental pain on the bottom two, because you have to take the front panel off to get to them, which in turn requires removing the drip tray and the electronics shield below it, because you can't just pull the front panel straight off--you have to slide it under the %$#@ group solenoid, because they fit the panel so friggin' tight around it. I don't think Tom can appreciate what a pain this is, as he doesn't appear to have the same front panel, but I think Mark's is the same as mine. Mark, any bright ideas?

I think I am going to drill out the studs from the cover, buy a set of slotted screws and matching locking nuts, and then JB Weld those nuts to the frame, effectively copying the newer design, so that I can get this stupid cover off without going berserk. Anyone got any better ideas to relieve my stress, perhaps something less... invasive?

Thanks to everyone for all the help...

I didn't know they fixed this.......on the plus side you don't scratch the outside cover (like I did on my Anita). I just don't tighten the inside bottom two bolts... there is no way I want to remove the front panel just to get down there, I've done it ONCE without removing the front and it was even more of a royal pain. If my boiler would have been hot, it would be have been impossible.

Mark