shadowfax wrote:You should come over for coffee, since you're close. I don't have a whiteboard, but I do have white paper and pens...

Paper and pens will work!

Let's try to get together this weekend, OK? I have some honeydo's at home but should be free at some point. I have some new coffees we can try if you like too (Jon's L.V. lives again...smoooooth and creamy)

Jon... I think you were agreeing with me? I tend to agree with your point at least (also being an Engineer) that it is not spring in the metal components that would cause this... but I would say it is the compression of the gasket that would allow the rotation... i.e. the portafilter theoretically rotates about two (far to small) contact points between the ears and the group and compresses the gasket (the section near the portafilter handle) and exposes a gap between the basket and the gasket on the machine side. The point about being enough room to rotate in the group head groves... good point, but I would guess there is, just from examining both of my machines it seems like there is plenty of play radially around the portafilter.

Obviously we know that a gap is opening up between the gasket and the basket/portafilter (the basket can't gap unless the portafilter gaps too), and we know that the handle is moving up (which can only be rotation, assuming the ENTIRE machine is not moving up) so to me, it seems like some sort of rotation must be taking place... just my guess though

Karl

PS. I was not dropping the engineering card to more legitimize my point (my point hopefully stands on its own without an appeal to authority) just trying to open up the conversation for more well explained technical discussion if the problem warrants

karl_a_hall wrote:Jon... I think you were agreeing with me?

I think we can all agree on that. The gasket does have to give a bit also if the portafilter pivots.

What I was saying about copper is that it's very soft and if you dent it then it stays dented....so if (for example) the groove has high and low spots then the portafilter ears could lose precious contact area. In the worst case, the contact becomes a point on each side and creates an axis for rotation.

Then the clearance of the groove allows the portafilter to pivot far enough to break the seal.


Does anyone else thing the grooves look wallowed or worn? It seems to me the chrome is gone from part of the groove, and this may be an indication of wear in that area. Besides being easy to permanently dent, copper is also easy to shave off (and it's free-machining - very easy to drill and cut)

John - the group on this machine is all brass, including the groove. I did not think it looked overly worn from the pictures. Copper on these machines is only a thin layer (some kind of electrochemical coating) over steel on the upper case.

I also believe it's possible the pressure builds in the portafilter and it moves, pivoting on the wings (this is what I tried to say earlier, Karl said it better).

So I guess a new portafilter should solve this. I'll ask if I can return it if it does not solve the problem.

Joep, over here, the least expensive portafilter that fits the Elektra well is a Rancilio. Not fancy, but nice heavy brass with a good plating. About $55 without a basket, you may be able to do better from the Netherlands.

Just curious, what part of the Netherlands? My father was a commander at Soesterberg (near Utrecht), I enjoyed my visits to the Netherlands very much.

Enjoy your experience, James

I'm not convinced about the portafilter that is the right one for the MV
I know it is different from the standard elektra one
I'll be talking with elektra again tomorrow
to confirm or not now that we have more pics
honestly in almost 10 years of repairing machine I've seen only 3 mini verticale so I don't have the details fresh in my head
however I can tell you that the commercial portafilter will also work but it will go past the 6.00 o'clock point
see you tomorrow

My portafilter goes VERY far to the right. Without the spacer ring installed it turned to about 8 o clock before it was tight. (with the blind filter installed, flatter top I guess, even to 8:30)
No with the spacer installed it turns to about 7 o clock (7:30 with the blind filter)

@ James
I don't live very near Utrecht. That is, about 80 km away I guess. That's very close in the USA, but not really for Dutch people. Utrecht is central, I live in the east. Yes, it's that small haha.

Looking forward to your answer, Stefano!

shadowfax wrote:I am not hardcore into metallurgy, but I believe brass is a pretty hard metal--not stainless steel, but way better than copper.

Technically speaking, "Brass" is any alloy containing copper and zinc. There are something like 300 recognized alloys called "brass" and probably 2 dozen of those are commonly available and used for most applications. None of these is particularly "hard" metal (relatively speaking) although it's true that brass is generally stronger than straight copper.


EDIT - This thread is way too entertaining!


EDIT2 - MY APOLOGIES! Looks like I am WAY off for the number of copper alloys (apparently there are well over 2 thousand copper and copper alloy grades including brass and bronzes)

Wait are we reading the clock the same way here
that confirms my suspicion about the portafilter it should arrive easily ( for a used machine to 6 oclock)