Greetings -

While waiting for bits for the Livietta, I picked up an ECM Giotto for the next project. The machine seems to be in decent condition and is mostly there. I will need to find a drip grill and portafilter, as the one that came with it isn't for this machine.

The ID plate seems to indicate it is a 2002. There is no indication on the badges as to whether it is a German or Italian machine, the ID plate has German and what appears to an Italian address.




There is water in the boiler, and the mushroom didn't have much scale, but the group is rather nasty looking. Think I'll pull the screen and give it a go to see what happens.

Any insight as to the origin would be appreciated, as the Italian and German machines have divergent parts requirements.

Thanks

What you have is the old machine made in Milano, before it was acquired by Rocket. The company owner back then was German, I believe.* Pretty much same parts as Rocket Giotto Classic. (here is an online copy of a parts catalog with wiring diagrams: http://www.espressocompany.com.au/spare ... .03.09.pdf ) I think these older Giottos can be found with 3 or 4 different controllers and wiring schemes.

I have one nearly identical, also from 2002 (where your serial# ends in 1927, mine ends in 2109.) But you have a nice Sirai pStat - I hadn't seen that in a Giotto, surprised that it fits. I suspect you also have a different controller and wiring scheme from mine. (my wiring and controller differs from the ones in the parts catalogue.)

Good score - expect it will clean up very nicely and work great. Cafelat makes a very nice PF that fits - is the all-in-one bottomless that can take a spouted bottom. See Cafelat XT Convertible Portafilter Review . For most of the parts I've needed I've used Stefano's espressocare. 1st line also has some parts.

* Edit addition/clarification: Founders of ECM Milano were Italians Friedrich Berenbruch and Ennio Berti. The relationship between the Milano and Heidelburg ECM's evidently started at a restaurant in Milan in the mid 90's. Here's a link to a 2008 article (in German) that sort of covers that. (or here, for a google translated copy.)

Thanks Pat -

Looks to be a transition machine, considering the Sirai. Other than the drip grate, should have no problem sourcing parts. Good thing, as Seattle Coffee Gear seems to be the only serious source. Sort of surprising considering how heavily the Rockets are marketed. The two 500 pound gorillas won't even talk to you if the machine wasn't purchased from them. ECM Italy's site has machines, but no way to order parts, and there seems to be no site for Rocket itself.

Have been considering one of Mr Pratt's portafilters, especially if I can't source a used OEM. Already have his tamper for the Faemina and the stainless/rubber stand. Nicely done products.

Looking forward to restoring it to good working and looking condition, it's actually smaller than I envisioned. Thing is built like a tank. Have to finish up on the Livietta first.

Cheers

Looking at the signs of leaks and probable steam leaks, didn't have much hope for a quick repair.


However, I pulled the screen, stuck the water lines in a jug, and cranked it up. Dang if the autofill worked and it came up to temp. Got hot water from the group and wand and decent steam. Water was clear and odor free. No leaks or steam leaks. Adjusting the Sarai produced no change in pressure readout on the gauge, but it did hold pressure, albeit with about a .7 bar deadband in the 1-1.7 range.

The group is ugly and I pulled and disassembled it to give a good soak. Pulled the water level sensor, which had a bunch of black crud on the tip. Also pulled the safety relief valve to try and peek in the boiler with a flash light. Elements and boiler covered in black crust. Looks like everything should be disassembled and given a good cleaning.

PS - Did Italy have their own fitting sizes, much like the British(Whitworth)? So far most of the fittings are sloppy with both Metric and SAE. Not good with brass.

Well, decided the condition of the boiler and everything connected to it looked cruddy enough to warrant a complete tear down. Soaked the boiler and element in citric and the steam and water wands in vinegar.
No surprises, except for this thing that's part of the pump outlets assembly. Over pressure valve perhaps?


Has a return line going back to the pump outlet, and seems to be adjustable. Good idea to count turns when removing that inner part?

Glad I did the whole enchilada, as everything connected to the water side of things was badly scaled.

The line connected to it goes into a Tee WITH the priming(?) bleed-off line off of the pump. The third hose takes the output from those two and goes into the reservoir, no?

And I would count turns, just in case. That part is critical for dependable operation- might consider replacement.

Now that you mention it, there is a Tee between it and the pump, going to the water reservoir. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Will descale it and see if it disassembles easily and count the turns. I like to try repairing anything before replacing, within reason.

cuppajoe wrote:Over pressure valve perhaps?

Yes, is the OPV/Expansion valve. Comes from the factory set at around 12 bar, but people (including me) often turn it down a little, so that you max out at closer to 10 bar using gauge threaded onto the bottom of a PF. Stefano sells a valve that replaces it nicely and that can be adjusted in place.

cuppajoe wrote:Has a return line going back to the pump outlet

It joins the line from the pump priming line at a tee, and the line from that tee goes back to your reservoir. (I think Randy said he same.)

And FWIW, going back a couple posts:

cuppajoe wrote:Did Italy have their own fitting sizes, much like the British(Whitworth)?

I don't think so. Should be BSPP threads with metric nuts on Italian machines. I don't think they make those nuts to close tolerances. Plumbers tend to use adjustables, but of course tube wrenches (aka flare nut wrenches) should be best.

Thanks guys -

I'll just count it out, and then maybe give it a 1/2 turn in. I've been documenting the tear down photographically, so should have no problem with reassembly.

So far have not had much luck with parts for this machine. Seems the dealers only sell what's on their web site, which isn't much. SCG has the drip grate, but no way to get the general rebuild supplies that I can see. I think I got my last E-61 rebuild kit from OE, but not sure and no longer available in any case.

Anyone know of a supplier for E-61 group rebuild kits? Also need the seal kits for the steam and water valve/wands.

Thanks

ECM have their own version of the E-61, there are a few subtle differences in cam lengths, gicleur setup, washers etc. See http://www.coffeeparts.com.au/ecm/ecm-spare-parts-1 . The part numbers shown are all straight from page 67 of the Nuova Ricambi catalogue, so you should be able to find a USA supplier pretty easily. Ist-Line seems to have all the necessary bits listed under ECM Germany, a laScala parts supplier should have them too.

Alan