ECM Giotto Project - Page 3
- cuppajoe (original poster)
- Posts: 1643
- Joined: 11 years ago
Thanks Alan -
Pulled the mushroom again and checked the passages, all were clear, including the gicleur. Also got the OPV apart and cleaned it. Behavior is the same. Ran Durgol through it and rinsed a couple of liters through it, still the same.
Durring all this I noticed that there was nothing going by the OPV, but a steady stream was going out the pump priming discharge. Beginning to suspect the solenoid isn't opening properly. Will try testing it isolated from the assembly tomorrow. It was badly scaled and unfortunately there's no way I can see to disassemble the valve itself.
Hope it's the solenoid and not the gicar
Pulled the mushroom again and checked the passages, all were clear, including the gicleur. Also got the OPV apart and cleaned it. Behavior is the same. Ran Durgol through it and rinsed a couple of liters through it, still the same.
Durring all this I noticed that there was nothing going by the OPV, but a steady stream was going out the pump priming discharge. Beginning to suspect the solenoid isn't opening properly. Will try testing it isolated from the assembly tomorrow. It was badly scaled and unfortunately there's no way I can see to disassemble the valve itself.
Hope it's the solenoid and not the gicar
David - LMWDP 448
My coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself - Tom Waits
My coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself - Tom Waits
- cuppajoe (original poster)
- Posts: 1643
- Joined: 11 years ago
From what I can tell from my latest tests referred to in the thread on the controller and fill valve, it seems that side of things is working properly. Still getting vary low pressure from the pump to the HX, running it just through the cold side plumbing isolated from the rest of the machine.
Durring the test was still getting a steady stream from the priming bypass and nothing out of the OPV.
Durring the test was still getting a steady stream from the priming bypass and nothing out of the OPV.
David - LMWDP 448
My coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself - Tom Waits
My coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself - Tom Waits
- homeburrero
- Team HB
- Posts: 4892
- Joined: 13 years ago
Isolated so that the normal outflow (line that normally goes to HX) is capped, or dead-ended in a gauge?cuppajoe wrote:Still getting vary low pressure from the pump to the HX, running it just through the cold side plumbing isolated from the rest of the machine.
If you don't have the normal output restricted or blocked you might not have the back-pressure needed to make the priming valve close. If the tube that normally goes to the HX dead-ends in a gauge, you should see some initial flow from the tube off the priming valve, then at ~6 bar or so that flow should stop, followed by flow (starting at 9 - 12 bar) from the tube off the overflow side of the OPV valve.
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h
- cuppajoe (original poster)
- Posts: 1643
- Joined: 11 years ago
Thanks Pat -
Turned out a seal was improperly installed in the pump. Got it sorted and it seems work as should. However, I bolloxed the priming assembly and need to order one. In the meantime I've got the pump output going directly to the boiler fill/HX switching assembly. OK with that 'till I get the new part?
I'll also pick up a gauge and put together a pressure tester as per your post. Sounds like a good idea, if not a necessity if I want to get serious about repairing these things.
Turned out a seal was improperly installed in the pump. Got it sorted and it seems work as should. However, I bolloxed the priming assembly and need to order one. In the meantime I've got the pump output going directly to the boiler fill/HX switching assembly. OK with that 'till I get the new part?
I'll also pick up a gauge and put together a pressure tester as per your post. Sounds like a good idea, if not a necessity if I want to get serious about repairing these things.
David - LMWDP 448
My coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself - Tom Waits
My coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself - Tom Waits
- homeburrero
- Team HB
- Posts: 4892
- Joined: 13 years ago
I think you can get away temporarily without that priming valve. For a gauge you can rig one that screws onto the spout fitting of the portafilter - just lock the PF in without a basket. (You can't do this on a PF that has a notch in the rim, but the standard Giotto PF should work fine.) I use one that I bought pre-made from Stefano's. He also has priming valves (air bleeder valves) so you could get both and consolidate the shipping cost.
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h
- cuppajoe (original poster)
- Posts: 1643
- Joined: 11 years ago
Thanks, bits are on the way from Stefano, including a gauge.
It's Alive! Dragged it into the 'lab'
Cranked it up, and this is the first coffee after the rebuild. Tasted pretty decent.
I had thought the Anita and the Giotto were good sized machines, until Junior showed up...
Now waiting for the last(maybe) bits to arrive and can button it up. Not too crazy about the Sarai setup, and may replace it. Erics has recommended going to an SSR and different PSTAT, so will probably change it out.
It's Alive! Dragged it into the 'lab'
Cranked it up, and this is the first coffee after the rebuild. Tasted pretty decent.
I had thought the Anita and the Giotto were good sized machines, until Junior showed up...
Now waiting for the last(maybe) bits to arrive and can button it up. Not too crazy about the Sarai setup, and may replace it. Erics has recommended going to an SSR and different PSTAT, so will probably change it out.
David - LMWDP 448
My coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself - Tom Waits
My coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself - Tom Waits
- cuppajoe (original poster)
- Posts: 1643
- Joined: 11 years ago
Here's the brew pressure gauge kludge. I needed a portafilter for the Giotto and a pair of Wega PFs showed up on the bay, complete with baskets, for a good price. Used one for this project. When adjusting the OPV, I adjusted the needle valve so the water trickled out at about the same rate as pulling a shot. Hope that's right.homeburrero wrote:I think you can get away temporarily without that priming valve. For a gauge you can rig one that screws onto the spout fitting of the portafilter - just lock the PF in without a basket. (You can't do this on a PF that has a notch in the rim, but the standard Giotto PF should work fine.) I use one that I bought pre-made from Stefano's. He also has priming valves (air bleeder valves) so you could get both and consolidate the shipping cost.
David - LMWDP 448
My coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself - Tom Waits
My coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself - Tom Waits
- cuppajoe (original poster)
- Posts: 1643
- Joined: 11 years ago
Well, it's a wrap. Got the last of the bits in and have replaced the Anita on the counter with the Giotto. Gonna miss the plumb-in feature.
Replaced the Sirai with a Mater and a small relay.
The drip tray from Seattle Coffee Gear for the Rocket Giotto is a perfect fit with the ECM. Also picked up a one hole steam tip for a Silvia. Best microfoam so far.
The Wega PF and basket seem to work well. A big thank you to all the folks here who held my hand through this journey. And a tip of the hat to Stefano and SCG, thanks for putting up with me. Between them they came up with everything I needed.
Replaced the Sirai with a Mater and a small relay.
The drip tray from Seattle Coffee Gear for the Rocket Giotto is a perfect fit with the ECM. Also picked up a one hole steam tip for a Silvia. Best microfoam so far.
The Wega PF and basket seem to work well. A big thank you to all the folks here who held my hand through this journey. And a tip of the hat to Stefano and SCG, thanks for putting up with me. Between them they came up with everything I needed.
David - LMWDP 448
My coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself - Tom Waits
My coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself - Tom Waits
- homeburrero
- Team HB
- Posts: 4892
- Joined: 13 years ago
Nice work on that pressure gauge. Looks perfect, with just the right range on the gauge, and is good to be able to measure while flowing. Mine doesn't so I set my OPV to where a no-flow maxes out at ~10bar.
Are your fittings all hardware store NPT, or did you find a BSP tee and BSP to NPT adapters for the gauge and the needle valve? (PF spout fittings are typically 3/8" BSP, and I believe a 3/8" NPT might work, given enough pipe tape even though it's a different pitch.)
P.S.
I used to use the Silvia single-hole and liked it better than the stock tip, but have since switched to a tip with two very small holes - New Isomac 2 hole Steam Tip. Even though it has two holes it is well matched to the 1200 watt element - element can keep the pressure up with the wand fully open. (I often make small cortados and cappuccinos, and like to slowly steam in a small pitcher.)
Are your fittings all hardware store NPT, or did you find a BSP tee and BSP to NPT adapters for the gauge and the needle valve? (PF spout fittings are typically 3/8" BSP, and I believe a 3/8" NPT might work, given enough pipe tape even though it's a different pitch.)
P.S.
I used to use the Silvia single-hole and liked it better than the stock tip, but have since switched to a tip with two very small holes - New Isomac 2 hole Steam Tip. Even though it has two holes it is well matched to the 1200 watt element - element can keep the pressure up with the wand fully open. (I often make small cortados and cappuccinos, and like to slowly steam in a small pitcher.)
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h
- cuppajoe (original poster)
- Posts: 1643
- Joined: 11 years ago
Thanks Pat -
All fittings are from a local hardware store. I soon learned to not even mention BSP or metric at the place. The locals don't cotton too much that 'ferrin' stuff. I just take the project bits in and try and match, ignoring the odd looks of pity. The yellow gas spec tape worked well, no leaks.
That two hole tip looks like the one on the Anita, which worked quite well. Found the Silvia tip was a bit better on the Giotto with 5oz of soy milk in a 12oz pitcher. Really gets it rolling.
All fittings are from a local hardware store. I soon learned to not even mention BSP or metric at the place. The locals don't cotton too much that 'ferrin' stuff. I just take the project bits in and try and match, ignoring the odd looks of pity. The yellow gas spec tape worked well, no leaks.
That two hole tip looks like the one on the Anita, which worked quite well. Found the Silvia tip was a bit better on the Giotto with 5oz of soy milk in a 12oz pitcher. Really gets it rolling.
David - LMWDP 448
My coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself - Tom Waits
My coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself - Tom Waits