ECM espresso machine sputtering water, no pressure

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Hwynboy
Posts: 48
Joined: 10 years ago

#1: Post by Hwynboy »

I have had my ECM machine for about 1 1/2 years, works like a charm. All of a sudden the vacuum relief valve is like a percolator, and water is sputtering out from the top of it, leaking water. I called Whole Latte Love (what a terrible place) and waited on hold for over 30 minutes got NO one to answer. I sent an email to them with a video of what was wrong, with this email...
Hwynboy wrote:I bought this unit almost 2 years ago. I pulled 4-5 shots early this afternoon. Then late this evening water is shooting out of this valve. I think it's the vacuum relief valve. So water is coming out and I have no pressure. Can you help me.
They send me this reply
Whole Latte Love Technical Support wrote:Thank you for your email and the video. After pouring 4 shots, you removed at least 8 ounces from the boiler, 16 ounces if they were double shots. The machine would then need to heat the new water to temperature. After leaving it on for another 10 minutes or so, did the pressure build again? How is it this morning? Before the machine reaches temperature a little water will come out of the vacuum relief valve. Once it reached pressure, the seal hits the top of it, causing it to close off, and then build pressure. What is happening with it now?

Thanks,
Tracy
Whole Latte Love Technical Support
So I respond with
Hwynboy wrote:I unplugged it when I had the problem since it was leaking water everywhere. I want to be more specific, the shots were pulled 5-6 hours before this problem started. It continually overflows/percolates water from that valve. I have emptied most of the water out the boiler, and I was still having the same issue, so it was like water was all over my counter whether it was high temp or not... its never leaked water onto my counter ever before this....does this sound right?

then 3 days later I get this email
Whole Latte Love Technical Support wrote:Are you using reverse osmosis, distilled, or zero water? These waters don't have enough mineral content to activate the water level probe. As a result the machine doesn't know to stop pumping water and the boiler will overfill.

Thanks,
Giordo
Whole Latte Love Technical Support
Are you kidding me at this rate I'll have this diagnosed by 2018...can I just talk to someone instead of an email every 3 days????

Anyone know what I can do to fix this issue? A lot of smart people here, so maybe I can get some help.

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keno
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#2: Post by keno »

Sorry about the problems you are having. First, your video doesn't appear to be working which makes it harder to offer good advice. But the main thing that comes to mind with a sputtering vacuum relief valve is that it is stuck in the open position due to scale and that the boiler steam pressure is not fully closing it. Have you tried removing it to inspect and soaking it in vinegar or some other descaling agent?

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HB
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#3: Post by HB »

The video is marked private, so I can only guess what might cause "water sputtering out from the top of it". Make it public, post some photos, and try to describe the problem step-by-step. Remember that we you don't have the benefit of having the equipment in front of us, so you'll need to be our eyes and ears.
Dan Kehn

jwCrema
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#4: Post by jwCrema »

And, I've found WLL to be extremely responsive to my questions. Since you are using a computer, try their chat window.

Or simply call again. Every company has the problem described by queuing theory.

Hwynboy (original poster)
Posts: 48
Joined: 10 years ago

#5: Post by Hwynboy (original poster) »

ok the video is published now, sorry I forgot to do it.

Secondly if this is a scaling issue I am going to lose my mind. I use the water softening system from Chris Coffee I pull on average less than one shot a day. I have had the machine for 1 1/2 hours.

https://www.chriscoffee.com/Commercial- ... ftsysg.htm

I was trying to avoid this issue so I bought that system. Is there a way I can descale without sending my machine in?

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keno
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#6: Post by keno »

Try wiggling the post sticking out of the top of the vacuum breaker. Grab it with some needle nose pliers and move it up and down and side to side. Then see if it seals from the pressure.

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keno
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#7: Post by keno »

Hwynboy wrote:I pull on average less than one shot a day. I have had the machine for 1 1/2 hours.
Assume you mean years. Lol!

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HB
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#8: Post by HB »

Hwynboy wrote:ok the video is published now, sorry I forgot to do it.
That's the vacuum breaker failing to seal. You can pull up on the pin as keno suggests; if it fails to seal and pressurize, then either the breaker's seal is compromised or it's coated with scale/grit and cannot seal.

It's hard to judge from the video, but another possibility is the steam boiler is overfilled due to a problem with the water level sensor (e.g., coated with scale which acts as an insulator). If you end up removing vacuum breaker to clean it in vinegar, it'd be a good time to check the steam boiler water level. Of course remember to follow good safety practices like allowing the machine to cool down completely, unplugging it, etc (*).
Hwynboy wrote:Secondly if this is a scaling issue I am going to lose my mind.
Checking an E61 Espresso Machine for Scale offers instructions for an easy sanity check. Or you can carefully remove the water level sensor and check if it's coated with scale.

(*) DISCLAIMER: The Home-Barista.com forums are provided for informational purposes only. Espresso equipment contains controls and conduits for electricity, very hot water, steam and high water pressure. Attempting repairs, modifications, alterations, or diagnoses of such equipment yourself could result in serious injury or death to yourself and to others and the destruction of property by fire and other causes. We accept no responsibility for any injuries or losses resulting from any attempt to perform equipment repairs, modifications, alterations, or diagnoses based on information from Home-Barista.com.
Dan Kehn

Hwynboy (original poster)
Posts: 48
Joined: 10 years ago

#9: Post by Hwynboy (original poster) »

So I think I can rule out scaling, the fact that I use a commercial water softener. But to be sure I removed the valve, no evidence of scaling. I also gave it a 40 minute Cafiza bath just to be sure, and reinserted it. There is no difference it still bubbles over water after about 2 minutes of the unit being turned on and starts to get hot. I'm assuming I need to replace the part...WLL says it's $50 and it will take a month to get it. I can't go that long without my latte's...it's been a week already.

Any other suggestions or ideas?

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erics
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#10: Post by erics »

I have never specifically timed the closing of any vacuum breaker valve but normally it takes about 5 minutes. A lot would depend upon the ratio between boiler size and heating element power. The entire machine will take around 45-60 minutes to fully stabilize temperatures.

Cafiza IS NOT the product to use to clean the vacuum breaker valve as it is a product used to clean groupheads, portafilters, etc, etc. Why would you not take Dan's advice and use white vinegar? :)

The vacuum breaker valve is available from any number of the suppliers who advertise on this site. You do not need to exchange the entire valve, just the upper portion (items 1, 2, 3 & 4) if, in fact, that is the problem.

Skål,

Eric S.
http://users.rcn.com/erics/
E-mail: erics at rcn dot com

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