Downgraditus? - Page 5

by **zin1953** on Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:22 am

Endo wrote:The only upgrade machine that interests me is the GS/3. Thank God they priced it out of my range.

Thank God I have no desire for one . . . doesn't mean I'd turn it down if someone wanted to give it to me, but the only machine I have any desire to ever upgrade to is either one of these (can't make up my mind) :twisted:

by **SlowRain** on Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:36 pm

I think I must be the only person on this planet who doesn't find those machines appealing. Everyone seems to rave about the looks, but all I can say is at least they're not square.

by **da gino** on Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:16 pm

SlowRain wrote:I think I must be the only person on this planet who doesn't find those machines appealing. Everyone seems to rave about the looks, but all I can say is at least they're not square.

Having only seen them in pictures I've often wondered why so many people think they are so far and away the best looking machines out there. I think they are cool looking, and a little different, but I certainly don't covet them for their looks over all other machines the way so many people seem to. (I realize that they also happen to be great espresso machines and that seems more exceptional to me than the looks). Perhaps that would change if I saw one in person.

by **Endo** on Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:25 pm

Focus guys........Mirage, GS/3 are not downgrades. (The river only flows one direction it seems). :lol:

by **JonR10** on Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:42 pm

Endo wrote:(The river only flows one direction it seems).

Funny how this thread has suddenly caused me to desire a PID'd, double-boiler, paddle group machine

by **Vad** on Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:54 pm

SlowRain wrote:I think I must be the only person on this planet who doesn't find those machines appealing. Everyone seems to rave about the looks, but all I can say is at least they're not square.

I agree, to me, Speedster is much more appealing. But other than that, I like La Marzocco FB70/FB80 look the most. Also I have a question, are there any rumours about new machine by La Marzocco? And also, what is better for a coffee shop, 2-group GB5 or 2-group GS/3? Thank you.

by **zin1953** on Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:59 pm

Vad wrote:. . . to me, Speedster is much more appealing.

And this, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, is why we have more than one machine on the market. Personally, I truly hate the way the Speedster looks . . . .

C'est la vie. Vous payez votre argent et vous faites votre choix.

Cheers,
Jason

by **Endo** on Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:12 pm

Am I right to assume there are 2 groups:

1. Chrome or brass, E-61, levers, exposed plumbing (aka "The Romantics").

2. Stainless, boxy, buttons, digital readouts (aka "The Modernists").

(I'm in category 2 by the way).

by **Bluecold** on Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:22 pm

I'm a definite group three.
Romantic machines with all the modern niceties such as PID's.

And i really want a mirage idrocompresso. It's about the same as my lust for a Citroen SM. Nowhere near my lust of a Ekranoplan KM or an Auto Union Type C, but definitely more than my lust for a Typhoon class sub (they are dismantling them for crying out loud!) Ohh if i had oodles of cash just lying around...

by **JmanEspresso** on Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:35 pm

Ill say Im a Digital-Romantic. i like digital readouts, but im a sucker for big chunks of exposed chrome. ONLY on my espresso machine.. I dont want a fleck of chrome near my car.

E-61's are sexy, Erics Therm makes it digi-sexy. What is even better is a big ol' SS chunk sticking off the boiler with a digital readout on the panel.

Funnily enough that sounds like a GS/3.. HMMMM. Ill give ya one guess as to what my desktop background is..

by **misterdoggy** on Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:04 am

I went for the sexy looking chrome super domobar, but keeping it shiny is an occupation.

If I get (and when) a GS3, I will get it with the black sides. As little chrome as possible.

I had a Rancilio S24 which had Red sides and matte chrome and was much easier to keep clean.

by **da gino** on Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:40 am

Endo wrote:Am I right to assume there are 2 groups:

1. Chrome or brass, E-61, levers, exposed plumbing (aka "The Romantics").

2. Stainless, boxy, buttons, digital readouts (aka "The Modernists").

(I'm in category 2 by the way).

Nope unless you are allowed to be in both groups. I lean a little towards the first, but I love the boxy stainless, digital look, too.

by **r-gordon-7** on Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:47 pm

Endo wrote:Am I right to assume there are 2 groups:

1. Chrome or brass, E-61, levers, exposed plumbing (aka "The Romantics").

2. Stainless, boxy, buttons, digital readouts (aka "The Modernists").

(I'm in category 2 by the way).

Well, I'd agree with the "2 groups" part, but believe the groups are "married" & "single"... which I believe essentially equates to Marshall's spot-on comment (post #6 at the beginning of this thread, some 4 pages back...)

by **Marshall** on Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:30 pm

I have two thoughts about this thread.

1. The accounting here has been terrible. An espresso machine is a capital investment and should be looked at the same as a car purchase. Its true "cost" is the purchase price, less its depreciated value when you sell it or trade it in. A $1,200 machine that you sell five years later for $600 (a conservative price), has cost you $600 or $10 a month. This is a reasonable cost for an espresso lover who can afford the original investment. The accounting does not, of course, apply to people who collect machines. (For simplicity, I'm leaving out expenses associated with ownership.)

2. Up until the introduction of the GS/3, espresso has been a pretty democratic hobby. You don't have to be a hedge fund manager to afford the best or nearly-best range of machines. That will change over the next few years as new models of single-head pressure-profiling machines with advanced temperature control designs come on the market. I hope the (mostly) convivial online spirit is maintained as more and more of these ultra-luxe machines appear.

by **Psyd** on Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:04 pm

Marshall wrote:1. The accounting here has been terrible. An espresso machine is a capital investment and should be looked at the same as a car purchase.

"Speak for yourself, John..."

I spent, at the time, what I thought would be the absolute maximum I would ever consider spending on an espresso machine when I bought my $7890 MSRP machine. If I ever sell it, it will be for exactly, if no more than, what I initially spent on it. Both of my Majors will sell for well over what I initially laid out for them.
None of them were purchased with the investment considered. All of them were considered something that I wanted, and happened to fall into money I had not budgeted for something else at the time.
If I were going to consider capital investment, I'da been flippin' houses this whole time.
Each of us has his own reasons and situations. To try to sum up this whole group into two camps is always going to be only marginally true, and almost as wrong as it will ever be right.

by **Marshall** on Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:54 pm

Psyd wrote:"Speak for yourself, John..."

If I were going to consider capital investment, I'da been flippin' houses this whole time.

I think you misunderstood. I was only using "capital investment" as an accounting term for something that has a residual value. I wasn't advocating speculating in espresso machines.

by **Psyd** on Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:15 pm

Marshall wrote:I think you misunderstood. I was only using "capital investment" as an accounting term for something that has a residual value. I wasn't advocating speculating in espresso machines.

No, I was understanding the use of the term, just (in my case) how it didn't apply. I wasn't suggesting that some folk aren't concerned in this area, but that, at least in cases like mine. That tends to be a lot further down the road than "what kind of coffee can I make, what will the portability, plumbability, durability", and even, "How cute is it gonna be". Most of these things tend to pop their heads up in coffee kit selection far sooner than, "I wonder what I'll be able to off her for when I tire of her, and her looks start to fade?"
Some people buy dogs to breed them, some buy dogs to hunt, I rescue mutts for family members.
I ain't saying that there aren't those that look at the value redemption of their kit, but that there is a bit more to it than that for a whole raft of us.

by **Marshall** on Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:45 pm

An espresso machine for me is just that: a machine for making espresso. I find them fascinating, sometimes beautiful and like to discuss them, but am happy to trade when something significantly better comes along.

by **Psyd** on Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:07 pm

Marshall wrote:I find them fascinating, sometimes beautiful and like to discuss them, but am happy to trade when something significantly better comes along.

Ya know, I used to say the very same thing, but since I still have three espresso machines, two Rockys, two Majors, and three hand grinders, I'm starting to think I was just foolin' myself. :lol:

by **Marshall** on Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:14 pm

Psyd wrote:Ya know, I used to say the very same thing, but since I still have three espresso machines, two Rockys, two Majors, and three hand grinders, I'm starting to think I was just foolin' myself.

Marshall wrote:The accounting does not, of course, apply to people who collect machines.


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