I have a PID Silvia and Rocky combo for I bet 10 years now. Recently upgraded the grinder but the Silvia is still a sore point.

I was reading feedback for the reason for the high end machines - "I make 2 espresso's a day and I want those to be perfect." This sums it up for me.

I have grand ideals of a Vivaldi II but I will probably have to settle for a Anita with pid.

Endo wrote:This might be a "over-simplification" but in your opinion, at what price point (espresso machine and grinder combined) does one switch over from just getting "great espresso and/or cappuccinos" to becoming a hobby/obsession?:D

I think you are accurate in sensing that the question is unanswerable. There are too many variables. What is my financial capacity? How much is what I am doing denying options for the rest of the family? Should I spend the money on socially responsible causes? How much is it worth to get as close to the "ultimate" as possible. What sense of satisfaction do I achieve from having equipment that makes is easy and fun to get the best out of the coffee.

All are values questions. There is no universal $1,500 set point for grinder and espresso maker. You can do substantially better than that in quality and consistency. As you go "up the chain" you spend more money to get smaller improvements. When to stop upgrading? That where the values questions kick in and they are as individual, I suspect, as the contributors to this forum.

Endo wrote:...the people my wife describes as "coffee machine nutballs"...

My wife liked your wife's comment.

I think the general public has an easier time understanding and accepting obsession towards hobbies like boating, cars, etc. Although I think Hi-Fi gear is a good comparison (that's one I don't get).

When someone has over 200lbs and $8000 of equipment in his Kitchen to make 1.5 oz of liquid (as tasty as it is), there is bound to be a lot more of this.

Still, I think most serious espresso hobbyists here have gotten over this a while ago. But for me, I'm still feeling a bit guilty.

HB wrote:Of course I would say her kitchen.

Interesting choice of words.

As I mentioned earlier, my wife wants me to replace the 6-foot stainless steel professional kitchen prep table coffee bar with a custom-made bar with finished wood cabinets and a granite top.

She wants this to be designed and built so it will match her kitchen.

Hobbies are what makes life interesting. It isn't the cost-benefit ratio or the payoff, it's the journey toward being skilled, or even expert, at something. For my wife and I, we both have our passions... and excesses, so there is no complaints. Who wants to leave everything to the kids, anyway?

Mine (In descending order of ridiculous investment):
Antique cars: 1934 Auburn Phaeton, 1977 Mercedes SL (plus donating time as a docent at an auto museum)
Woodworking: Tools, tools, tools. Can't have enough.
Coffee: (over time) 4 roasters; 4 espresso machines; 5 vac pots including 2 antiques that are currently and have always been, nonfunctional; 3 grinders
Collection of Hand-carved Italian Pipes: Plus a custom display cabinet I had made in a village in China some years ago.

Hers: Captain of the Ladies Golf Club (How many $800 Drivers and $300 putters do you need, anyway?)

Both of ours: Rescuing Old English Sheepdogs (12 to date). Rescuing dogs may be inexpensive, but the Vet bills sure aren't.

no disrespect but what's suggested here ain't no different than owning a mercedes, being a member of "Mercedes Benz Enthusiast Forums" then after a year posting a message and saying "I'm driving my mercedes only twice a day and only for 5 minutes, instead I could have purchased a suziki, looking at my mercedes I feel guilty... ~a couple seconds silence here for the effect, then go on~ anyone consider selling their mercedes and buying a suziki?"

a question asked, now people feel obliged to give an answer cos most of them almost everyday give similar answers already either to their family or to their friends "in defence of their hobby, passion, curiosity" whatever you name it, it doesn't matter. IMO it's nobody's business where and how people spend their money. and what I hate most (no offence I'm not talking about endo here, speaking in general) some people visiting forums either only to judge or to evoke some guilty conscience. I'm not even mentioning those who promote some common sense to poor lost souls called geeks. it's always the same thing, even at a simple yo-yo forum, every now and then someone appears and says "there are hungry people out there but you give $xxx to a single yo-yo!!"... same logic, different subject, since we're talking about coffee and coffee machines --> do I need ultra expensive coffee machines? hell no, I even don't like drinking coffee as much as I like playing with it! but to be able to play with it as I please, I have this --compared to 99,9% of earth population-- expensive machine. will I downgrade? If "the need" appears I will. If the need appears to upgrade then I will upgrade. that is not a confession, that doesn't sound "brave" but you consider some similar answers here as "brave", which is quite confusing cos before you edited that message there was another line there, you were saying you may "downgrade" to elektra semiauto. huh?? it's like saying I have mercedes cl now but I consider "downgrading" to mercedes clk

hobby mobby fobby if you wanna do something real brave then I suggest visiting a cigar aficionado forum, and posting "I feel guilty that I spend so much on premium cigars, anyone consider downgrading to paper wrapped cigarillos?" do that, come back here with the feedback you get (which will include lots of *beeep* and *you being a girl or what?* questions from some "gentlemen" be assured of that) then we'll talk about "brave"

anyway, everybody has their own reasonable reasons for their own reasonable actions, when you're in a specialized on a single matter-high end forum like this, where people do crazy mods to their machine, custom woodworks, share some very detailed analysis, drill holes to their "expensive" portafilters, chop their grinder's hopper without a blink only because it doesn't fit under cabinet etc.. eh, only one in a thousand will consider your question as serious. so are you real sure you're asking the right question at the right place or this is an attempt at reverse psychology? If the latter then I don't think we need that, there are professionals out there whom we can pay for an hour per visit. but if you "really" feel guilty looking at your machine, then why live with it? guilt is a strong word and a strong feeling which is hard to bear most of the time. and why suggesting an alexia? it's only $700 less than what you own now. go sell it, buy a gaggia for much much less, buy lots of good coffee, I assure you'll still get very good results. I just served french press coffee to my mom and her friend, they were all giggles like little schoolgirls, "coffee coffee coffee beautiful coffee" what $25 bodum press and fresh-high quality coffee can do to people.