Descale Problems - Brass Flakes?

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JamesPN007
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#1: Post by JamesPN007 »

I just did a descale of a La Spaziale Vivaldi S1 VII (plumbed version), 18 months old. I descaled the steam boiler using the siphon method described here.

http://s1cafe.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1359

I used a "domestic strength" Dezcal solution of 1oz powder to 32oz water, and left the solution in the steam boiler for about 1hr. Upon removal of the descale solution, in the first 2 clean flushes I got a lot of gray water with black bits in it. Once the gray/black water cleared up I started noticing what is in the pic below, which appears to be brass colored little bits. Does anyone know what this is? Is it brass pieces of the boiler coming off? Is it anything to worry about or can I just put the machine back together? After about 15 clean water flushes I am getting the same amount of the stuff coming out as pictured below, each time. Please help!! :oops:

I also descaled the brew boiler by running the water line into a 1 gallon jug with the same Dezcal descale solution and drawing it up into the brew boiler. Then reconnected the water line and ran through clean water. Seemed to work fine, and I didn't get the brass flakes like I did on the steam boiler.


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JohnB.
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#2: Post by JohnB. »

Why not just buy the steam boiler cover gasket & open up the steam boiler? Based on past experience with that machine soaking for an hour with a descale solution won't have much effect on the scale built up on the heating element.
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JamesPN007 (original poster)
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#3: Post by JamesPN007 (original poster) »

Because I don't feel mechanically inclined enough to take apart the boiler. Are you aware of a step by step on this for the S1?

The descale evidently did something. Any thoughts on what that sediment could be? After putting the machine back together and heating back up, I'm getting that same sediment coming out thru the hot water tap, and the water coming out is a light reddish-brown color, almost rust-like.

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JohnB.
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#4: Post by JohnB. »

You loosened something up in there but there's still more to clean out & you don't really want to be running it through the solenoids.

Not much to opening up the steam boiler. Make a wiring diagram of the electrical connections on the cover, disconnect the wires, remove the bolts holding the cover on & pry it off. No need to disturb any of the parts mounted in the cover but you will have to scrape off the old gasket before installing the new one.

This thread I posted 4 years ago on the S1 Cafe might be helpful: http://s1cafe.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=872
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DJF
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#5: Post by DJF »

Sounds like the descaler is working but hasn't finished it's job. I agree with John re taking the element out and having a look but before that you could try a stronger solution of citric. Leave it in for a few hours or even over night.

And if I can strip down my A3 you can take an element out of the S. Easy as brushing your teeth - almost.

Good luck!
"24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? I don't think so."

JamesPN007 (original poster)
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Joined: 13 years ago

#6: Post by JamesPN007 (original poster) »

So after flushing out a lot more water thru the hot water tap (a couple of gallons, which is hard to do when you can only run thru 10-12oz at a time), things are looking a little better, but I'm still getting a small amount of sediment with every run. Fortunately the "big stuff" came out during the siphon process, so hopefully little of it would have gone through the solenoids. John, I noticed in that S1cafe post that you used Cleancaf, which I've never really had much luck with either - I've found that Deszcal worked much better on a previous machine.

On another note related to the Deszcal, while filling up the boiler with the solution I accidentally spilled some on the top/side of the boiler and onto the floor of the machine. Should I be concerned with this, and if so, what should I be doing to properly clean it off the machine so it does not affect anything?

I think I'm going to order the steam boiler gasket and open up the boiler. In the meantime, I think I'd be OK drinking a little bit of scale coming out in the water. I just hope what is coming out is not little metal bits - I can't imagine that would be too good to ingest. Either way, I don't think much of that stuff is coming out through the steam wand, which is the only way I usually use the steam boiler (I don't really use the hot water tap for drinking purposes).

John - how does the heating element come out of the boiler once the cap is off - is it just sitting loose in there? Also, where is the bolt holding the steam boiler to the machine? I would prefer to open it without actually taking the boiler off the machine, but just in-case.

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JohnB.
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#7: Post by JohnB. »

I originally tried Cleancaf which was useless. I've also tried hot citric acid solutions of various strengths & as I mentioned white vinegar. The vinegar is my favorite for soaking small parts & if I didn't have the blast cabinet it would be my choice for all scale removal. Once the scale is gone you can give the parts/boiler/ect a quick soak in either hot citric acid solution or a hot Cafiza bath to remove the vinegar odor.

It's also a good idea to unscrew the brew boiler cover & take a look inside. The cover seals with a large o'ring that is reusable. I found a lot of debris trapped in the front bottom area that won't flush out by just running water through the boiler. If you've run descaling solution through the boiler you probably added to this debris. Also hard green mineral deposits are common in the seam area that will eat right into the boiler if left unchecked. Removing these deposits required filling the brew boiler with white vinegar & leaving it for 24+ hours.

The mounting screw for the steam boiler is on the front side. Remove the polished front panel from the machine & it will be in clear view.

The heating element is attached to the cover so it lifts out as one assy. If you remove the element & soak it remember to never let the solution go above the bottom of the cover as you don't want the element's contacts getting wet.
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