Hi,

I hope someone can help me with this - I'm kinda stumped.

I have a Quickmill Andreja Premium with a direct fill kit that I installed. It's run great for about a year now. Last Friday, though, it died. The power light comes on but the heating light won't turn on and the boiler won't heat. The front of the unit has 3 lights - a power light which is on, a heating light which does not light, and a ready light which also is not lit.

I've opened it up and checked the overtemperature switch on top of the boiler. In fact, I've removed it and jumpered the wires. This didn't help.

When the direct fill kit was installed I had to disconnect the two magnetic float switches and jumper them. I've verified that these are still jumpered properly.

The solid state relay on the side of the machine has a power LED which should be on but is not.

Does anyone have a service/technical manual for this machine that they can send my way? Or any ideas what to check next?

Thanks in advance,

Mark

More than likely, but NOT absolutely, your pstat is very, very tired - perhaps dead. The led on the SSR only illuminates when it receives the signal from the pstat to close and "apply heat".

You can download the full size image here: http://users.rcn.com/erics/

Eric, why should a pstat die in just 1 year?

You're right Scott - with the QM machines (all are equipped with SSR's), the pstat has very light duty.

Mark - check for voltage at the "common" terminal of the pstat. With one lead on ground and the other on common, the meter should read line voltage (110 VAC) with the machine on. Now, MOMENTARILY jumper the common terminal to the normally closed (NC) terminal.

The SSR led should light and the boiler will start to heat up. If so, shut machine down and UNPLUG. Check for loose connections and check the continuity of some of the wires in question. If all this checks out, your pstat is dead.

What pstat brand is installed in the machine? Some are rebuildable.

Thanks for the great schematic and info.

I checked and there is 110v at Common on the pstat. The pstat is a CEME.

I shorted the Common to NC but nothing happened. The SSR LED did not light. I checked the voltage at NC and it is at line voltage too. Are you sure it was NC to short to? not NO?

Where to go next, chief?


Thanks

Mark

As long as the boiler is "cold", both the common and NC terminals should have line voltage. The only function of the NO terminal is to light the green "ready" light. So, if you jumper the common to NO, the green light will lite.

So, the pstat is looking as though it is rising from the grave. and the SSR may be at the gallows.

If NC has power, then control terminal 3/A1 on the SSR should have power. Also, terminal 1/L1 should always have power with the machine on. With the machine off and unplugged, there should be continuity between control terminal 4/A2 and the incoming neutral terminal.

For sure, if you jumper the load side of the SSR (terminals 2/T1 and 1/L1) that will provide power to the boiler heating element.

Ok.. this has gotten very weird

After looking at this for some time and trying to follow the current flow it turns out that this machine is wired backwards. Neutral is hooked to Line and Line to Neutral. This changes much - not least the color coding on the diagram! On the diagram brown is line, blue neutral - but that's all backwards in this machine

With a great deal of trepidation I've switched the line and neutral at the mains input block to what they 'should' be.

This has caused a loss of power at NC on the pstat but I now have power at 1L/1 - which I didn't have before and, according to the diagram, should have.

But now I'm stuck because the diagram is different from my machine. From the diagram it appears that NC should have power as long as the switch is on - it's connected to Line voltage. But in mine the NC terminal runs to the Gicar controller to get its power and it's not getting any. I'm wondering if this is a difference between the Anita and the Andreja. The Anita diagram shows the NC terminal hot whenever the water level sensor is closed and allowing current to flow. In the Andreja there are two water level sensors - I imagine they are monitored by the controller - one for a warning level and one to shut off for low water.

I'm not positive but I'm assuming that when the controller sees both sensors closed it will apply power to the pstat else it shuts it off effectively shutting down the boiler. Is this right?

I did an experiment to confirm this - I jumpered power from the power switch line voltage to the common terminal of the pstat. As soon as I did this the machine functioned normally. The boiler heated, the SSR LED lit, it came up to temperature and the boiler turned off while the ready light turned on. I then drew water from the hot water arm - lots of hot water came out but the pump didn't kick on to refill the boiler. At this point I have to stop testing using the machine itself as the boiler is nearly empty and is not refilling.

Would I be safe to assume that my problem is now confirmed in the gicar box?


Mark

The wiring schematic was drawn from my Anita, purchased new in Dec 2006. What is the history of your machine?

Regardless, your Andreja worked fine for a year - right?

From the diagram, the normally closed (NC) terminal on the pstat has power when the machine is on AND the boiler "wants some heat."

The NC terminal on the pstat (on any pstat AFAIK) "receives" power from the common terminal (C).

In the Andreja there are two water level sensors - I imagine they are monitored by the controller - one for a warning level and one to shut off for low water.

You would certainly have a water level probe for the boiler and a water level sensor (which you bypassed) in the reservoir. Are you saying that you have an additional level probe than these two? What is the part number on your Gicar controller?

Would I be safe to assume that my problem is now confirmed in the gicar box?

I would be more than willing to send you an electrical schematic with the components placed and no wiring shown. You can then draw your own diagram. Email me at erics@erols.com.

edit - OK now I see where you have (had) the two level switches in the reservoir and the standard level probe for the boiler. Yes, that makes your wiring vastly different - I would put the wiring back (input terminal) to where it was when we "started this thread". After all, the machine worked fine for a year with the wiring that way.

Hi,

I 'misspoke' earlier. There is no power for me at Common - which would mean no common at NC as well, as far as I understand.

There are two magnetic floats in the Andreja - one to warn you when the water is getting low - another to turn the water off at the lower level. I have both of these bypassed. The Gicar part number is 9.9.04.31V01.

In your diagram it shows line voltage going through a single water level sensor to the pstat. This isn't the case for me. In mine the power feeds into the gicar and returns through a different output on the gicar to the pstat. Something in the gicar controls whether or not my pstat gets energized and it's not energizing it.

I jumpered power to the pstat common from the switch and that made everything start working (light, pstat, ssr, indicator lights) except the boiler won't refill when the water gets low. I think the gicar controls this too.

Thanks for your help with this - it's much appreciated!

Mark