I have been looking into preventative de-scaling for my Brewtus II. There is some confusion as to if you are supposed to de-scale the boilers, or not. Since I have hard water in my area - you can tell from all the deposits around the water fixtures - I don't have a choice. I need to either do preventative de-scaling, or find a way to not have to de-scale the boilers at all. I read in the "Insanely Long Water FAQ", that Crystal Geyser water can be used to prevent scale. However, I also read on a Brewtus users group post, that this might not be the case and that Crystal Geyser doesn't recommend using their water for espresso machines. I found some counter top RO systems (I rent and can't install a system), but I already have a counter top 10 stage water filter system attached to my kitchen faucet, and I have read that drinking RO water is bad for you over time (not enough minerals in the water creates health problems).

What I really want is a counter top water softener to pour my filtered water into, but I don't think that has been invented yet - So, do I:

1. Use the Crystal Geyser? - which might not work and will cost lots of money
2. Replace my filtered water with the counter top RO system for coffee and drink bottled mineral water?
3. Ignore the stupid controversy all together and preventatively de-scale the boilers anyway?

-Randii

Brita pitcher works very well. Softens the water a bit and filters.

I believe its the calcium salts that creates the scales. I personally use distilled water and haven't noticed any scaling in my boiler. As far as reverse osmosis and the lack of minerals go, if you eat food -- meat, fruit, and vegetables -- you'll be fine.

Randii wrote:I found some counter top RO systems (I rent and can't install a system), but I already have a counter top 10 stage water filter system attached to my kitchen faucet, and I have read that drinking RO water is bad for you over time (not enough minerals in the water creates health problems).

We have soft water in this area so I haven't had to worry much about softeners. Health issues aside for a moment, as I understand it, reverse osmosis water is nearly mineral free. Distilled water certainly doesn't taste great by itself, why would you expect it to improve if used for espresso? David offered some suggestions in Is my water filter set up overkill?

DavidMLewis wrote:...your coffee will taste better and you won't strip the chrome if you put an inline calcite between that setup and the machine. I used the OmniPure K5648 available here or from Good Water Warehouse. You'll get maybe a slight scale buildup at the waterline in your boiler, enough that you might want to do a light descale every few years, but no more than that. It's a good compromise. Tastes better to drink too, or for making tea.

Of course, if you don't mind the extra step, you could mix your own using a mixture of RO and unfiltered water rather than re-mineralize RO water.

Jarno wrote:...I personally use distilled water and haven't noticed any scaling in my boiler...

Remember also that Abe's excellent Buyer's guide to the Brewtus: http://www.home-barista.com/expobar-brewtus-review.html
reminds us that distilled water won't work, as minerals are necessary for the sensors in the boilers to work properly.

FWIW, I've been using only Ozarka water in my Brewtus for over two years and haven't noticed any problems (knock on wood).

The In-line scale inhibitor looks like it is the best bet, but it looks like it is designed for plumbed-in systems. Are there scale inhibitor filters that can work with a pour-over espresso machine?. I haven't yet seen a counter top RO system that has a scale inhibitor.

The people on the Brewtus Group forum said that they de-scale their machines without any problems - just to use straight food grade citric acid, and flush out the boilers until you don't taste the citric acid anymore. They don't think that WLL's admonishment to not de-scale the boilers holds any water (sorry for the pun!) I'd like to tackle the scale problem from both ends - less scale to begin with means less de-scaling of the boilers.

I haven't yet seen a counter top RO system that has a scale inhibitor.

I meant I haven't seen a counter top *water filter* system that has a scale inhibitor. (Sorry, the other statement makes no sense! Of course!)

Randii, I have no idea what WLL has to say about descaling a Brewtus. But, I will say that no one has any business making an espresso machine that can't be descaled.

Distilled water will only produce mediocre coffee, at best. Lots of consumers will tell you they love their distilled water coffee at home. But, this is only because they do not know what they are missing.

Coffee requires a certain amount of minerals to extract its flavor properly. It's a chemical reaction. Serious coffee shops (and the SCAA Coffee Lab) spend big bucks fine tuning their water's optimum mineral content with companies like Cirqua. Occasional descaling is a small part of the price we pay for great coffee.

I've written so often on this, I'm starting to bore myself!

Randii, I have no idea what WLL has to say about descaling a Brewtus. But, I will say that no one has any business making an espresso machine that can't be descaled.

Marshall,

I didn't hear anything about this de-scaling issue until a person I am in contact with - who just bought a Brewtus - posted that she was told several times by several WLL employees, not to de-scale the boilers, just to backflush the machine. This makes absolutely no sense, especially considering that the company that builds the machine (CREM), included instructions in the Brewtus packaging, indicating that owners should de-scale the machine on a regular basis.

I don't know what WLL's reasons are behind this policy - it could be that they are concerned that people will ruin the boilers by not de-scaling correctly - but I think that's irresponsible. De-scaling a double boiler machine can't be much more difficult, than de-scaling a single boiler machine. I think it is wise to ignore the "do not de-scale" policy. Not de-scaling a machine is vastly more damaging than regular preventative de-scaling.

BTW: I found a "Custom Double Counter Top" water filter that can come with a "Sodium Removal" filter. It is a potassium ion-exchange filter that "will remove virtually all sodium (and hardness) and exchange it for potassium." In other words, it has a water softener. If anyone is interested, or if you have more information about it, you can find the system here:

http://www.purewaterforless.com/product/PE-CTD-C/?froogle

It's much cheaper that an RO system!

-Randii

Additional info on Crystal Geyser: I got a "WaterSafe" drinking water test kit to see how hard the Crystal Geyser water is that I had briefly started using in my espresso machine. The hardness tested within 50ppm, but - the sample tested positive for bacteria contamination! Unbelievable! I hope it is just *this* batch of water! My filtered water and unfiltered tap water tested clean! Bye Bye Crystal Geyser!

-Randii