Hi Guys,

First time poster here.

I have a realtively new Bezzera Magica E61 (about a year old) that is having problems with the vacuum breaker valve. It is suddenly leaking water, which is likely caused by the boiler overfilling itself.

I've spoken to the store that sold me the product (as it is still under warranty) and they let me know that it is likely caused by my "water being too soft, causing safety systems to fail and the boiler to over fill".

I've heard of soft water being an issue for the boiler sensors before, but I use Brita-filtered Toronto tap water in my machine. Toronto tap water is actually known for being very hard water, and I doubt that a Brita filter could do much to 'soften' it.

Could a Brita filter soften hard water enough to cause a boiler to overfill?
Anyone else have any experiences with a leaky vacuum breaker value due to a similar situation?

Any responses are much appreciated! Thx.

I've been using a TDS meter to 'measure' what I've been putting into the reservoir on my machine....the belief is that a 'new' Brita filter will soften the water somewhat and it does seem to, at least in the beginning, but nowhere near the point that the water would be considered "soft" (I am also in Toronto and have also used test strips, etc). I honestly don't think that is your issue, but I'm not familiar with your machine so can't be of any help unfortunately!

Much more likely to be scale on the level probe.

Alan

While Brita filters do have a small amount of ion exchange beads in them which lower hardness, they do not remove all hardness, even when new. Even if they did, enough minerals would remain in teh bolier to trigger the level circuits while you use the filter and its ability to soften lessen.

A vac breaker valve that remains open should not at all affect water level. If it stays open when the biler is heating then you may find some steam escaping and hissing, but no stream of water- just condensing steam I would think.

I could not find a diagram but from what images I could find, I believe that some Bezerras use two water level probes. One is a safety for low water level and one is for setting the maximum water level. I agree with Alan that I would first suspect scale on the probes.

Scale on the level probe or your vacuum breaker is not snapping shut all the way which is common. They will get some scale on them and not fully sealing, leaking/spitting some vapor. You can unscrew the vacuum breaker and drop it in some vinegar to clean it and peek in the boiler through the breaker fitting and see what the inside of the boiler looks like. If you remove the level probe to clean it, make note of its position so you can get it back at the same level. A sharpie works wonders for that.

mixedup wrote:I've been using a TDS meter to 'measure' what I've been putting into the reservoir on my machine....the belief is that a 'new' Brita filter will soften the water somewhat and it does seem to, at least in the beginning, but nowhere near the point that the water would be considered "soft"

Yea. Measuring the hardness of the water is a good idea and I am planning on buying a TDS meter to measure my water hardness. I'm not too keen on straight tap water and have been reading up on the different techniques people do with their espresso machine water.

You're right about a new Brita filter possibly softening it a tad, but nothing significant. I thought it was odd that the store technician would think that it was the likely cause.

Alan Frew wrote:Much more likely to be scale on the level probe.

Alan

Yea. That seems like the most likely scenario.

The only thing that throws me off about it is that when I last did my descale (about 3 months ago), there was pretty much zero scale sediment that came out of my machine (probably because I use Brita filtered water). Makes me a bit surprised that my probe would be covered in scale.

But despite this, if the boiler is overfilling, it must be the probe. I can't think of another reason.

Randy G. wrote: A vac breaker valve that remains open should not at all affect water level. If it stays open when the biler is heating then you may find some steam escaping and hissing, but no stream of water- just condensing steam I would think.

I could not find a diagram but from what images I could find, I believe that some Bezerras use two water level probes. One is a safety for low water level and one is for setting the maximum water level. I agree with Alan that I would first suspect scale on the probes.

Steam is escaping and hissing, and yes, it is condensing. You're right, there is no "stream" of water, but there is a lot of condensed steam forming and sitting on the top of the valve to the point where it is just dripping all over the boiler and to the bottom of the machine.

Since this is the case, do you think it's an issue with the vacuum valve?

You're also right about the two probes existing. I can see two on top of the boiler with wires attached to both of them. The store technician mentioned if this leaking problem persists, that he would have to replace the vacuum valve...but it looks like that won't solve anything if it's the probes that are causing the problem.

It's strange because they inspected the machine entirely, and took it apart (according to them). I would assume that they would have noticed scale or some other issue with the vacuum breaker valve or probes.

cannonfodder wrote:Scale on the level probe or your vacuum breaker is not snapping shut all the way which is common. They will get some scale on them and not fully sealing, leaking/spitting some vapor. You can unscrew the vacuum breaker and drop it in some vinegar to clean it and peek in the boiler through the breaker fitting and see what the inside of the boiler looks like. If you remove the level probe to clean it, make note of its position so you can get it back at the same level. A sharpie works wonders for that.

Hmmm. It could very well be the vacuum breaker on its own that is the problem, and maybe the boiler really isn't overfilling. Very interested in taking out the breaker and taking that peek inside the boiler. Kind of nervous as I don't want to screw anything up with the machine.

I assume you can do this without having to empty the tank out with the hot water wand first?

I assume the vacuum breaker can be taken off and put back on without issue (no other attached components, I assume)?

Franck wrote:Hmmm. It could very well be the vacuum breaker on its own that is the problem, and maybe the boiler really isn't overfilling. Very interested in taking out the breaker and taking that peek inside the boiler. Kind of nervous as I don't want to screw anything up with the machine.

I assume you can do this without having to empty the tank out with the hot water wand first?

I assume the vacuum breaker can be taken off and put back on without issue (no other attached components, I assume)?

Yes,

Shut the machine off, unplug it and turn off any plumbed in water supply. The vacuum breaker valve can be removed quite simply and soaked in a descaling solution, vinegar works fine. My water is quite soft, yet I still had a sputtering problem that evolved into a very slight constant leak from the boiler due to the valve scaling up just a bit. It works good as new once it's cleaned, and you'd be surprised, it doesn't take much scale on it to cause it to not work properly.

I bought a barbed vacuum breaker valve ( two actually) from Chris Coffee Service, and followed John Borella's advice and ran a line from the vac breaker to the drain so I could keep the water off the boiler and away from any electronics, wires etc. It's a very worthwhile, affordable modification. Like many have said, they should come that way from the manufacturer.

TomC wrote:Yes,

Shut the machine off, unplug it and turn off any plumbed in water supply. The vacuum breaker valve can be removed quite simply and soaked in a descaling solution, vinegar works fine. My water is quite soft, yet I still had a sputtering problem that evolved into a very slight constant leak from the boiler due to the valve scaling up just a bit. It works good as new once it's cleaned, and you'd be surprised, it doesn't take much scale on it to cause it to not work properly.

I bought a barbed vacuum breaker valve ( two actually) from Chris Coffee Service, and followed John Borella's advice and ran a line from the vac breaker to the drain so I could keep the water off the boiler and away from any electronics, wires etc. It's a very worthwhile, affordable modification. Like many have said, they should come that way from the manufacturer.

That's a very good idea.

My major concern was that all the water was leaking all over the wiring. Makes perfect sense to make this modification.

Do you mind providing a link that provides any info/instructions on how to do this?

Here's the part: https://www.chriscoffee.com/Vacuum-Brea ... p/f814.htm

Here's the mod: Owner experience with Bezzera Strega towards the bottom of the page.

Note, John used a orangish colored tubing, you can see where it comes off the vac breaker, and it tees in to the drain line. You'll need a tee though, and about 6-8 inches of tubing. I can't speak for him, but at one time he had a bunch of them, he was willing to drop one in a letter envelope in the mail if you ask nicely. Its not a high pressure drain, you dont need any zip ties, just the tubing and the tee.

Buying two valves makes maintenance and instantaneous thing. Pop one out, pop in the clean back up and fire it back up. No down time.

Forget the TDS meter. it measures everything including things that do not cause scale. A far more useful thing to do is first read the Insanely Long Water FAQ and to buy the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals GH+KH kit. This measures general hardness and carbonate hardness. It takes both for scaling to occur. Check Amazon for pricing.

And from your description, it does sound like a problem with the vac breaker, but if there is scale there causing a problem it may be, or may soon be affecting the level probes. Time to address not only the breaker problem but the general scaling situation as well, before it gets expensive.