...split from Synesso Cyncra Single Group - A Home Barista's Perspective by moderator...


Ben and other Cynra owners, or Abe, if you remember, how long does it take your machine to get up to temp? Do you leave it running all the time, or turn it off when not in use?

JimWright wrote:Ben and other Cynra owners, or Abe, if you remember, how long does it take your machine to get up to temp? Do you leave it running all the time, or turn it off when not in use?

The Cyncra will get to temperature in about 30 minutes from start-up. I turn my machine off when not in use as a general rule.

JimWright wrote:Ben and other Cynra owners, or Abe, if you remember, how long does it take your machine to get up to temp? Do you leave it running all the time, or turn it off when not in use?

I generally give my machine at least 45 minutes to heat up. There's quite a bit of mass to heat up there (about 100 lbs?). I generally keep my machine running 24/7, unless I'm leaving for a couple of days. I like to be able to walk up & pull a shot anytime, and we use the hot water tap for non-coffee uses often. In the last year we've also used the steam wand to heat bottles for my son at all hours.

Besides convenience there's a durability issue. The Synesso is built like a tank (an absurdly well designed, stainless steel tank) but anytime you put a machine through heating / cooling cycles things will move. Valves are more likely to fail, gaskets wear out, etc. (this is somewhat mitigated on the fittings side in that all the plumbing in the brew path is stainless, so has the same coefficient of expansion.) Also when running the pid only bumps on occasionally and briefly, but that first heating of a cold machine draws a ton of power for a long time. Talking about the idea of running a timer on my Cyncra with Mark Barnett we decided it didn't use much less power to keep it on 24/7. I've not run a kill-a-watt to test this or anything.

One thing I did was put some loose batt, 1" insulation around the steam boiler. The cup tray still is very hot (not much clearance above my cup tray) but I don't think precise temp control (which demands uninsulated boilers) is as critical to the steam tank as it is to the brew tank. I would strongly advise against insulating a brew boiler.

Teemu checked the power consumption on his GS/3 with this result



See his blog (posted October 19, 2007)

I had a funny experience this morning. I got some more great shots out of the Barefoot FVH Edlyna, but they tasted completely different. Saturday it was the caramel soft slightly cocoa, then this morning it was a much more savory tomato-y flavor (not quite as tangy as Black Cat sometimes is, a little darker).

Both Saturday's and today's shots were great, but the trick is, with my current setup, I feel like I can't really control it, and I want to. Even with consistent grind, and I hope, relatively consistent dose and tamp (at least consistent enough that I got successive shots showing the same traits this am, and Saturday as well), the shots come out markedly different from day to day from the same blend, and sometimes shot to shot as well. I guess a couple of days apart it could be the beans aging, but I'm also thinking I'm not really able to hit the same temp (in fact, I know so, since sometimes the boiler turns on mid-shot) and that the flavor of the beans changes materially from one temp to another.

So, that leads me back to the Cyncra (or other solutions, but leaning toward it) - Ben/other owners, would you make the same purchase decision again?

pdx wrote:...I don't think precise temp control (which demands uninsulated boilers) is as critical to the steam tank as it is to the brew tank. I would strongly advise against insulating a brew boiler.

I believe the main argument against boiler insulation centers around heat loss. An insulated boiler does not lose heat as quickly (which is, after all, the point of insulation). Without a way to introduce cold water directly into an insulated boiler, it takes longer to dial down the temperature. But aside from this, why would a properly tuned PID give worse temperature control (and/or thermal stability) with an insulated boiler?

RapidCoffee wrote:But aside from this, why would a properly tuned PID give worse temperature control (and/or thermal stability) with an insulated boiler?

Yes, an insulated boiler does give worse temp control than insulated. The idea is that the element can only add heat to the system, not take it away. The only way to dump heat is by dumping water or radiating it off the boiler. With a steady dump of heat the one variable you control (heating / not heating) is more relevant more of the time. This is why the Versalab machine is designed with a copper plate as the lid to the boiler- to steadily dump heat so the temp is more controllable by the element.

JimWright wrote:So, that leads me back to the Cyncra (or other solutions, but leaning toward it) - Ben/other owners, would you make the same purchase decision again?

Yes, I would buy a Cyncra again today. I also advise coffee shop clients to buy them without hesitation.

Jacob wrote:Teemu checked the power consumption on his GS/3 with this result

Interesting- I should get my hands on a kill-a-watt & check mine out. Thanks for posting this.

I've owned my 220v cyncra for 2 1/2 years now. For the 1st 1 1/2 years I left the machine on 24/7. During that time I replaced the group head gasket 3 times and the vacuum breaker seals 3 times. During the last year I have been turning the machine off when not in use. A typical day for me is drinking a couple of shots in the morning and one in the evening so I turn the machine on twice during the day. My electric bills are running about $10-$12 less per month and I have yet to have to replace any gaskets or seals. My 220v machine reaches the set point in 12 min. and I typically start making shots in about 20 min.

Would I purchase again? Absolutely!
Would I purchase the cyncra again if the GS3 was out and available at $4,500? Absolutely!

The build quality is incredible and it's very easy to work on. The customer service you get from this very small high end boutique shop is the best I have ever received from any company ever. I wish I could say the same thing about the other company represented in my equipment list.