For those of you who are interested, here's a power analysis on the Vivaldi S1:

http://www.rimpo.org/s1/S1Power.html
This is from Chas Rimpo's site which is dedicated to the La Spaziale Vivaldi S1 & the newer VII.

I also wanted to note that the group is made of brass, not stainless. I'm no espresso genius but when I look up into the group, it's indeed brass because I can literally see the "brass" unless the person is talking about the rest of the group connected onto the boiler. I leave both of my S1's on 24/7 for days or weeks on end and haven't noticed the utility bill even move.
And yes, the group gaskets wear out quickly and crack even in home usage...if you want to call it that since in my household there's over 5800 shots fired a year.

Niko wrote:...in my household there's over 5800 shots fired a year.

Wow! 2 shots every 3 hours. All day (and night), every day. (average, of course)

I pull shots so fast sometimes that by the time I knockout a puck, the previous one is still smoking in the box. I call it the "smoking puck syndrome", it occurs when you have parties. I've had get-togethers where I pulled up to 60+ shots per evening several times, it's a lot of fun and it gives the machines a work out.

cannonfodder wrote:In the end, I retired the two group to the basement and got an Elektra A3, which I still consider to be a commercial machine but in a single group. It still produces the best tasting espresso IMHO of any machine I have had the opportunity to try, short of a LM two group.

Dan and I discussed this statement offline and compared it to his experiences with the A3 and LM's. One possible explanation for the better shots from the LM's I have used could simply be the grinder used. I want to correct the statement above. As part of the Titan Grinder Project, I have a Super Jolly and Kony beside the A3. I can say, with confidence, that the A3 and Kony combination is every bit as good as the shots I have pulled from a La Marzocco. Once more, proof that the grinder makes a big difference in the quality of the shot.

... Follow-on discussion of Elektra A3 steam lever operation split to Elektra A3 Steam Wand Lever, How does it work?...

Well i think the Synesso Cyncra two group just squeezes in as a "commercial" machine.....





One day I'll have one.... Most likely before I'm married (knowing the trouble most of you seem to have with your S.O's )


Joel

As newbie considering my equipment options, I've been reading the posts on this site quite intently for a while now.

Over the past several weeks, CL in my area has had a handful of used commercial 2 group machines listed, and only one quality, single group machine fit for the home. Given that the used commercial machines seem to be priced in the same range (or much less) as a good entry level machine, a guy gets to thinking "Why not buy the big one?"

Looking over this post, I see that the points of consideration/possible drawbacks for a commercial machine in the home can be summarized as:

1. Size
2. Set-up
3. Energy Consumption/Environmental Impact
4. Maintenance
5. Overall Cost or Ownership

So, as I break these down and apply them to me:

1 & 2 Size/Set-Up: Paradoxically, size is not an issue because my kitchen is so small. This means that whatever machine and grinder I get will find a home in our finished basement, which offers relatively easy access for plumbing and electrical work.

3. Energy Consumption/Environmental Impact: I'm sure a larger commercial will draw more electricity than a smaller prosumer machine. But to me that is offset, possibly more than offset by the fact that reusing a machine is directly akin to recycling. Rhetorically, for a new machine, how many resources go into the gathering and shipping of raw materials, production and shipping of the final machine? (I do see that buying a used single group is likely the best option for this concern)

4. Maintenance. This is the big sticking point for me. I have seen some really nice refurbish projects discussed in detail on this site. While I do not fear getting my hands into a project, I've never attempted anything of this nature. I can get my hands to do the work, I just don't know how my brain can tell them what to do.

5. Overall Cost or Ownership: I know this hobby/obsession won't be inexpensive, but I do want to spend my money wisely. It would be nice to have a pretty new machine, but if I can eventually pull an espresso that is as good from an older wallflower of a machine, then that's just fine with me.

So, I suppose this long winded ramble was just an intro to these questions:

- Are there basic schematics, or a good book of how these machines work in general?
- Are there certain makes/models (and production years) that are easier to work than others? (eg. I read that working on a Faema is like working on a Volkswagon)
- Are manuals for certain makes/models more readily available than others. (I'd rather work on a more difficult machine if I have a good manual, than a simpler on without a book)
- What have I not considered, or what questions have I not asked?

Thanks everyone - - -

RandyR wrote: - Are manuals for certain makes/models more readily available than others. (I'd rather work on a more difficult machine if I have a good manual, than a simpler on without a book)

Its best to check with the manufacturer of the machine- for instance Synesso provides free pdf's covering operation, maintenance, and troubleshooting. They're also great about phone support. (I use Synesso as an example- its the manufacturer I know best.) Just call a manufacturer or distributor- see how much help you could expect when things go wrong.

Keep in mind also that some manufacturers use teflon gaskets (which can be reused several times)- this is an argument for a newer machine rather than older.

A couple that I think of are;

How hard has the commercial machine been used?
What will it take to restore it?
Am I the kind of person that likes to get into the mechanics of things.
How advanced is the technology of the commercial machine as compared with the better prosumer offerings?

For me what it came down to was the size of the kitchen, and I think it may do this for a lot of people who use their kitchens to cook as well. Looking at some two and three group machines, I realized they would occupy one entire wall of kitchen counter space. The only way I could even begin to conceive of it would be to have a sort of free-standing espresso cart in the dining room. At that point it became so ridiculous to my Better Half, that I had to admit defeat.