Hi all,

I have a Saeco Poemia and grind my fresh, locally-roasted beans with my Hario Skerton. Not ideal, I know, but it's all I can afford right now.

After reading various posts on the improved results after depressurising the pressurised portafilter, I depressurised mine, as per the youtube video. Afterwards, now matter what I did, the coffee was sour and somewhat cold. Would this be because there is quite a gap between the basket and the spout? Or is the poemia just not designed to go non-pressurised?

I have now gone back the pressurised portafilter but would like to purchase a non-pressurised portafilter to have a bit more control. But after my disappointing experience, I am wondering if it would work.

Thoughts?

The fineness and evenness of the grind make the pressure, when the pressurizer is removed. If the grinder is not going fine enough, the coffee will be bad. Can you grind fine enough to stop the flow or slow it down until it is just a small stream?

Thanks for your reply. I have choked the machine many times with too fine a grind! And, strangely, when a fine grind manages to produce a slow drip, the coffee is super-weak. And sour!

Not strange - sounds like channeling to me.
There is a fine line -- the less forgiving the equipment the finer the line -- between too loose and too tight of a grind. Starting obviously too coarse, as you go finer you will see a more restricted flow as the coffee blocks the water flow. But the progression eventually hits a breaking point as the water pressure causes the puck to fracture or drills a hole through. Once this happens, you will see faster flow and weaker coffee.

Same goes for lower/higher dose.

The trick is adjusting grind and dose to get a good extraction. Poor basket prep will also lead to channeling.

What does the puck look like after the extraction? Note that puckology is inexact and that puck disruption can happen after the shot is finished.

Yes, the grind was too fine. Try loosening it up a little at a time. The simple goal is 30-50 ml of espresso in 30 seconds. If you can get in that range of flow, then you can work on finetuning for better flavor.

My Saecos in the past turned out some pretty good espresso.

PC

It will work. Welcome to espresso. You will have to start from square 1 with a real basket.

If you would have begun by saying,"I am going to de-pressurize my portafilter. What problems will I have?" you would have probably been told that to some extent it will be like starting over in learning to make espresso. Suddenly, dose, grind, distribution, coffee quality, coffee freshness, and tamping will all become very important when, previously, they mattered very little.

The "crema enhancement" devices are used in low-end machines because they take most of the skill out of the equation. About all you need to do is hit the portafilter with the coffee. You could just fill the portafilter, tamp however you like just to flatten things out, and the device takes care of most of the rest. It doesn't make stale coffee suddenly fresh but just about everything else is compensated for.

On my website www.EspressoMyEspresso.com, check out this article: 12 - EASY GUIDE TO BETTER ESPRESSO AT HOME. It is written in plain language, and although it might take a week or two to digest it all, it will serve as a good reference guide to helping you through.

Absolutely it will work, but you need to get your grind, dose, tamp worked out for the new set up.

I am using a simple Breville Roma machine. When I switched from the pressurized basket to a real basket, it caused me no end of trouble (while using the Breville 450 grinder). I could get something OK out with a large dose and very hard tamp.

When I upgraded to a Baratza Vario my espresso improved remarkably, but I was shocked at how far up the scale my espresso grind really was (min range on the Micro, and 3rd line on the Macro).

Although there was an immediate improvement I am still working on fine tuning my dose, grind and tamp to keep improving the extraction.

I would recommend you invest some beans and just work through to find a nice cup of espresso.
Make sure you are using an appropriate amount of coffee (14-16g) in the double filter, and be sure with each test you continue to use the same amount each time.

Also, get a bathroom scale and practice your tamp to have an idea of what 30lb tamp feels like (or use a calibrated tamper or such).
Then start with what you think is a course grind, and pull a 30ml espresso and check the time.
Work your way down to the 25 second window.

Once you are close you can start to play with dose as well to find the right time and taste.
There are also many post about looking for the blonding of the extraction, again this should be at about the 25-30sec window.

Good luck and let us know how it is working.

^Yep. With an pressurized basket anything that goes wrong is operator fault. Learn to properly pack a basket. What you're getting is channeling from an improperly packed basket and probably too fine a grind, causing the path of least resistance to be a puck flaw or the edges of the basket. This is going to be a steep learning curve, try reading these articles:

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Espresso 101: How to Adjust Dose and Grind Setting by Taste

You also need to consider that your grinder is inadequate. It can be used, but my experience with that grinder suggests that quality almost always suffers.

Thanks for all your replies! Any thoughts on why the coffee is much cooler when using the depressurised portafilter?