CMA Astoria CK auto fill not working
- FOCKER
- Posts: 21
- Joined: 11 years ago
Hi everybody, I just bought an used CMA Astoria Compact Ck 1 Group for a really cheap price. the machine has a reservoir and can be plumbed in . It was used occasionally and it was stored for a long time
When i'd got it, I turn it on for a test and the boiler does not fill. I Turned the group on and the water pass through so the pump works well. I don't know if the boiler was filled with water since it was put out on storage. so i disconnected the level probe to see if it start to fill up but nothing.
I tried to research some wiring diagram about this machine but i couldn't find anything
Does anyone own this machine or any similar? what should i do?
Please Help!!
Here is a pic of the machine
Greetings from Argentina
Ps: Sorry my bad english
When i'd got it, I turn it on for a test and the boiler does not fill. I Turned the group on and the water pass through so the pump works well. I don't know if the boiler was filled with water since it was put out on storage. so i disconnected the level probe to see if it start to fill up but nothing.
I tried to research some wiring diagram about this machine but i couldn't find anything
Does anyone own this machine or any similar? what should i do?
Please Help!!
Here is a pic of the machine
Greetings from Argentina
Ps: Sorry my bad english
- erics
- Supporter ★
- Posts: 6302
- Joined: 19 years ago
- FOCKER (original poster)
- Posts: 21
- Joined: 11 years ago
I looked into the download section but there isn't a service manual for this model. there is one for an Astoria 2 group machine but it is not the same that i have
I don't know if the problem is maybe the control box because the brewing group and hot water tap works well but the autofill wont start and then the red light come on and everything stop working till i turn off and turn on or maybe is the main valve that is stuck but i suppose that the pump should start anyway
I don't know if the problem is maybe the control box because the brewing group and hot water tap works well but the autofill wont start and then the red light come on and everything stop working till i turn off and turn on or maybe is the main valve that is stuck but i suppose that the pump should start anyway
- erics
- Supporter ★
- Posts: 6302
- Joined: 19 years ago
I SUSPECT that there is a double pole single throw (DPST) relay in the control box that is not working.
Another possibility (although slim) would be that the wire lead from the level probe is accidently grounded to the chassis as it weaves its way to the control box.
Another possibility (although slim) would be that the wire lead from the level probe is accidently grounded to the chassis as it weaves its way to the control box.
- FOCKER (original poster)
- Posts: 21
- Joined: 11 years ago
Hello Eric, thank you for your answer.
I changed the relay for a new one but the problem still remain. i check the the continity from de level sensor to ground and it's open, the level wire continuity to ground is open too
i can't find any schematic to find the problem. the controler box is GIEMME MFC2SN-B
Here are some pics of the board
This is the AC side:
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc22 ... 215344.jpg
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc22 ... 215228.jpg
back of the AC side:
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc22 ... 61bb84.jpg
The DC side:
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc22 ... 44c653.jpg
Back:
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc22 ... 215401.jpg
Old relay:
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc22 ... 156581.jpg
Ichecked the zener diodes and they are ok
Idon't know what else i can check
Thanks
I changed the relay for a new one but the problem still remain. i check the the continity from de level sensor to ground and it's open, the level wire continuity to ground is open too
i can't find any schematic to find the problem. the controler box is GIEMME MFC2SN-B
Here are some pics of the board
This is the AC side:
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc22 ... 215344.jpg
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc22 ... 215228.jpg
back of the AC side:
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc22 ... 61bb84.jpg
The DC side:
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc22 ... 44c653.jpg
Back:
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc22 ... 215401.jpg
Old relay:
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc22 ... 156581.jpg
Ichecked the zener diodes and they are ok
Idon't know what else i can check
Thanks
- erics
- Supporter ★
- Posts: 6302
- Joined: 19 years ago
Here is what little I know:
The relay which sends power to the boiler fill solenoid AND the pump simultaneously is powered by DC voltage somewhere between 12-18 volts. There is a transformer on your control board which converts your line voltage to 12-18 volts AC and that AC is then rectified to power the relay(s).
So, you need to also check that the transformer is behaving properly . . . you are (obviously) skilled so this should not be a difficult job.
The relay which sends power to the boiler fill solenoid AND the pump simultaneously is powered by DC voltage somewhere between 12-18 volts. There is a transformer on your control board which converts your line voltage to 12-18 volts AC and that AC is then rectified to power the relay(s).
So, you need to also check that the transformer is behaving properly . . . you are (obviously) skilled so this should not be a difficult job.
- FOCKER (original poster)
- Posts: 21
- Joined: 11 years ago
I think the transformer is working becouse the brew relay and the heating element relay are. But i will check the transformer voltage from the secundary coil...erics wrote:Here is what little I know:
So, you need to also check that the transformer is behaving properly . . . you are (obviously) skilled so this should not be a difficult job.
Thanks for the complement, by the way. I'm a Mechanical Engineer
I'll keep you inform
- erics
- Supporter ★
- Posts: 6302
- Joined: 19 years ago
I am also - Diesels and Steam - but now retired.I'm a Mechanical Engineer
- FOCKER (original poster)
- Posts: 21
- Joined: 11 years ago
Ok, I checked the trasformer and is Ok
I followed the circuit from the relay actuators and I found 3 transistor for each relay, they works as a switch, so I thought "Here's the problem, this circuit is foult" and I swaped with the other transistor next to it that controls the heating element relay like this:
if I was right when I'd connect the board again, it should fill the boiler and the heating element should not work, right?
But the auto fill still isn't work and as a bonus the heating element blew off. This is for not have water in the boiler but an awful coincidence
My digital electronic knowledge is limited
so my last chance is to replace the 2 operatinal amplifiers, LM324 and LM358 hoping that it works. If not I'm Lost
Eric if you have another advise, please let me know
Ps: I hope to make me understand, my English is not that great
I followed the circuit from the relay actuators and I found 3 transistor for each relay, they works as a switch, so I thought "Here's the problem, this circuit is foult" and I swaped with the other transistor next to it that controls the heating element relay like this:
if I was right when I'd connect the board again, it should fill the boiler and the heating element should not work, right?
But the auto fill still isn't work and as a bonus the heating element blew off. This is for not have water in the boiler but an awful coincidence
My digital electronic knowledge is limited
so my last chance is to replace the 2 operatinal amplifiers, LM324 and LM358 hoping that it works. If not I'm Lost
Eric if you have another advise, please let me know
Ps: I hope to make me understand, my English is not that great
- erics
- Supporter ★
- Posts: 6302
- Joined: 19 years ago
Now it becomes a question of money.
It is very easy to manually fill the boiler (say 2/3 of full) once a replacement heating element is fitted. But now you are facing the monies for a heating element (hopefully used, but good) and a control board that would fit the application. Can all of this be done . . . of course . . . but the costs would exceed the machine value.
It is very easy to manually fill the boiler (say 2/3 of full) once a replacement heating element is fitted. But now you are facing the monies for a heating element (hopefully used, but good) and a control board that would fit the application. Can all of this be done . . . of course . . . but the costs would exceed the machine value.