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Calibrating a New Giotto Premium

Postby UKGuru on Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:49 pm

Hi Everyone,

After a great deal of research, I finally bit the bullet and purchased an Espresso Giotto Premium Plus with a Mazzer Mini grinder.

Now everything is set up and cleaned for use, I am trying to figure out the right pressure for the Giotto.

Some background:
When I start the machine and leave it standing for 25 minutes, the pressure used to rise to 1 bar and then drop to .8 bar after a quick (2-6 oz flush). I read what I could around the E61 head and the Giotto on this forum and though it was not clear, it appeared the pressure should be raised to 1.1 or 1.2 bars. So currently I have set it to 1.1 bars to see how this affects my espresso.

Can anyone shed any light on what pressure this machine should be set to. I only have one pressure gauge, which is for the boiler.

Also, should I be modifying anything else?

Any help or pointers would be great since I am quite new to the art of pulling great espresso shots.

Cheers,

UKGuru
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Postby HB on Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:52 pm

You should read How I Stopped Worrying and Learned to Love HXs, specifically What is the "right" boiler pressure setting? excerpted below:

HB wrote:If the three prosumer HX machines mentioned above had different boiler pressure settings and yet their temperature profiles were similar, what's the "right" setting? For prosumer HX machines (e.g., Quickmill Andreja Premium, ECM Giotto, Fiorenzato Bricoletta, Grimac Mia, La Valentina, etc.), the boiler pressure setting is a tradeoff of the desired brew temperature, steam quality, recovery time between shots, flush amount, and flush frequency.

Most home baristas set their espresso machine's pressurestat somewhere between 0.8 and 1.2 bar (measured at the top of the cycle) and then determine the flush amount to bring the group to the target temperature. I prefer the pressurestat setting on the lower end of the acceptable range because it slows the overheating of the water in the heat exchanger. The drawbacks are that it diminishes recovery time and especially steam production, some espresso machines to the point where they no longer can create microfoam well. But if you're preparing drinks only for yourself and perhaps a couple friends, the lower end of the boiler pressure range is easier to manage temperature-wise than the upper end. The barista's job is easier in the former case because the rebound time is long enough that the difference in brew temperature between a delay of 15 seconds and 25 seconds after the flush and the beginning of the extraction isn't dramatic. In contrast, a miscalculation of ten seconds risks producing an over-temperature extraction (very dark initial crema, black edges) for a pressurestat setting at the high end of the acceptable range.

The right boiler pressure for a prosumer machine is therefore the pressurestat setting that meets your drink preparation pace, and to some degree, your experience level.

It's been many years since I used the Giotto, but I remember it recovering quickly at 1.0 bar. That's where I would start, but I would not quibble about 0.1 bar either way. As I recall, the Giotto preferred the "flush and go" approach to brew temperature management. That is, flush until n seconds past the end of the flash boil, lock in, wait no more than a 10 seconds for "rebound time", and pull.

UKGuru wrote:Also, should I be modifying anything else?

I wouldn't. The Giotto is a fine espresso machine that's easy to use.
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Postby Al deHyde on Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:05 pm

This may be more than what you're asking for, but here's my take:

When I received my Giotto (Evol, but same machine) it was cycling between a low of 0.83 and a high of 1.10. It made good espresso then. Based on some comments here, I raised the temp gradually through full turns of the pressurestat by 1, 2, 3 and 4 turns, leaving each at those settings for about a week.

A few weeks later, I reversed the process, going from +4 to +3 to +2, +1 and zero (original settings). I was surprised by that the readings going down were the same as going up (there is a lot of spring tension in the pressurestat, so I was not expecting such a result going in the opposite direction). I then went down to -1 turn and then -2 turns. The last gave my readings on my boiler pressure gauge of 0.80 and 1.01 bar (the low and high in the cycle).

In the end, I liked it right where the factory had it set, and I've left it there since. I was able to make good espresso at every setting, just the nature of the flush cycles changed, and the steam pressure changed a bit. Even at a setting of -2 on the pressurestat, there was plenty of steaming power to make good microfoam - I think it took a little longer is all. However, at the zero setting (the mfg original setting) all I need is a fairly short flush, grind my coffee and go. I use Eric's E61 thermometer as an indispensable tool for my flush, and as a check during extraction. It was useful using a Scace thermocouple initially, but once you get used to the temp differential between the E61 device inside the head, and the exit temperature onto the puck, it's duck soup.

A couple of comments is all:

Sirai Pressurestat - it's a slotted screw inside a plastic housing (yellow cap). I suggest you take a Sharpie pen and make a nice, permanent black dot on one side of the screw, so you can tell right away which side is which. You might also want to make another mark on the black plastic housing (a scratch, or a permanent silver sharpie) where the black dot on the screw lines up with the mark on the housing. Then keep a record of any changes you make.

Boiler Pressure Gauge - I don't have any idea how accurate these are, but I suspect there may well be some variation between individual gauges on factory machines. So the readings from my Giotto may be a little different than yours, but the boiler pressure may be the same. If they calibrate the Sirai pressurestat settings for their machines at the factory with a pressure gauge, it may be much more accurate (and expensive) than what is installed on the machines.

To sum, you might want to get used to using the machine at its factory setting because there just might be a reason they set these where they are (everyone's seems to be a little low like this). I rely totally on the E61 thermometer for my flushes - you can establish a regimen to get whatever 'average' output temp profile you want once you establish some baselines. Only after you have a feel for that, and have some idea what you're looking for and how to measure that would I go and change anything. Also, one vendor of these machines made it quite clear that mucking with the pressurestat on this machine would void the warranty (just fyi)

Marty
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Postby UKGuru on Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:20 pm

Thank you so much for the responses...They are extremely helpful....

I have set the the high end of the pstat at 1.1 bars and I do find the pstat ranging from .9 - 1.1 all the time. Once the pstat reaches the 1.1 bar mark, it stays steady for less than a minute or so and then begins to slowly drop to .9 and the cycle begins again. I have never had a HX machine before so I am not sure if this normal behavior.

Another question I have is regarding the flushing technique...Should I purchase a thermometer to measure the temperature of the water after its flushed? Should I be aiming for a set temperature to ensure a good shot or should I use my palate?

I appreciate any help...

Cheers

UKGuru
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Postby HB on Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:51 pm

Eliminate the guesswork and get one of these:

Image
From Monitoring Brew Temperature - E61 & Silvia
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Postby UKGuru on Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:31 pm

Thank you for the information...Seems I will get the thermometer for the E61 Head....

Can anyone shed light on why after reaching a pstat of 1.1 bars the pstat begins to drop to .9 bars and then slowly rises to 1.1 bars and so the cycle continues. I thought the pressure would only be reduced in the boiler after I open the steam, water or pull the lever on the Giotto. So I am not sure why the pstat cycles continously between 1.1 and .9 bars without drawing any water from the boiler.

Cheers

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Postby Al deHyde on Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:11 am

Your PStat relay turns the heater element on when the pressure drops to 0.9 bar. When it reaches 1.1 bar the PStat turns the heater element off. If you listen carefully, you can hear a faint 'click' of the PStat at both ends of this cycle. Your range is normal (typical). On my machine, it takes aprox 19 seconds (between clicks) to heat up, and about 124 seconds on the 'cool down' cycle (between clicks). What you really need to do is search through this forum for some excellent information on how HX machines work. For now, you should have no need to calibrate anything. There is a flushing routine that will work on your machine as it is currently configured. Perusing the forum will help you with that, also.
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Postby UKGuru on Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:48 am

Hi,

Well what a relief...I thought there was something wrong with the machine....Thank you for clarifying the pstat drop...

I will continue my search on this superb forum to perfect my espresso skills....

This machine is amazing and I hope I will use it to its full potential.

Thank you everyone for your educational pointers and insights into the Giotto.

Cheers

UKGuru
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Postby erics on Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:08 am

So I am not sure why the pstat cycles continously between 1.1 and .9 bars without drawing any water from the boiler.

As the machine is at idle, there is a continuous flow of hot water (~ 225 F) in the thermosyphon loop at very low velocity. The top third of your boiler is steam at an average temperture of 250 F and this flow of relatively cooler water through the boiler's heat exchanger causes the steam to condense and thus lower the boiler's pressure. The pressure variation in your boiler should behave about like so:

Image
Skål,

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Postby cannonfodder on Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:44 pm

UKGuru wrote:Thank you for the information...Seems I will get the thermometer for the E61 Head....

Can anyone shed light on why after reaching a pstat of 1.1 bars the pstat begins to drop to .9 bars and then slowly rises to 1.1 bars and so the cycle continues. I thought the pressure would only be reduced in the boiler after I open the steam, water or pull the lever on the Giotto. So I am not sure why the pstat cycles continously between 1.1 and .9 bars without drawing any water from the boiler.

Cheers

UKGuru


That is referred to as the pressurestat deadband, the min and max for your pressure. Some pressurestats have a tighter deadband but that is pretty normal for that pressurestat.
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