Hello ladies and gents,

I've been lurking around this forum for quite some time, this is my first post here. I have a tendency to get myself in waaaay too deep, so here goes nothing.

I've become infatuated with the idea of building my own espresso machine. I'm watching the Mistral project and am avidly following the other project (the Synesso boilers - don't remember the username atm). It stemmed from a desire for a few characteristics that would require a more expensive machine, then I saw the project threads and thought it would be an incredible project. Plus, then I can make exactly what I want, it'll look the way I want, and perform the way I want.

So far all I've decided is that I want an E-61 group (of all the shots I've tried, my favorites tend to come from the E-61); I will be mounting the pump outside the machine, and it might have to be plumbed from a bottle for a while; I will of course be plumbing the drip tray. Another goal for this machine is to make it easy to work on. Layout is extremely important here.

A little idea that I wanted to try was a sort of a Strada mod on the E61 lever, might be waaaaay overkill, but it could be really interesting.

So far it seems like the biggest hurdle will be to source a chassis and a group head, though that might prove to be easier than I thought if I can buy some of those parts separately. I have access to a machine shop (lathe, mill, cnc) and I know how to use all of them, as well as a master machinist who is really into projects like this, so custom fabrication is not an issue. Really the only limitation is welding/brazing, but I'd hope I don't have to do that.

From what I've seen it would make sense to buy an old machine and clean it out/gut it and replace everything. Is it a better idea to start from an E-61 hunk of brass and bolt it to some steel bars, or am I sort of on the right track? Where would I go about getting such a scrapyard machine? I haven't had good luck finding things that are in good enough condition that I'd want to buy them. I might have found the type of group I want on Espresso Parts, the manual E-61 (for Fiorenzato Bricoletta - compatibility issues?), and I'll probably be ordering most of the rest from them as well. Then the question is the chassis - would it make more sense to buy an old machine and use it just for the sake of having mounting points already, or is it not worth the hassle, so I might as well just build one? In that case, how do I mount the boilers, is there a difference? I wanted to have the hybrid HX-DB system that La Marzocco uses, should I buy an HX boiler for the steam boiler and just a standard brew boiler and feed it that way? What am I missing?

Sorry for the huge block of text, so here's a little TL;DR:
I wanna build a machine - need to know some general things about effective use of time/energy, as well as parts I should be on the lookout for.

What am I missing? I'm sure there's something...

I suspect buying a new E61 group etc , will cost more than a decent ex commercial small (2group) machine for a few hundred $$'s....Knowing that the groups are fully serviceable.
That would also provide you with numerous other components, pump, boilers valves etc.
And, of course you can still replace anything that is beyond repair.

Also, you can get much cheaper E61 heads from other suppliers.
http://www.eevad.com/product_info.php?p ... _id=216541 <-- example
In any case, I'm doubtful you would gain anything from just buying a good e61 machine and modifying that to suit.

MaxwellsCat wrote:I wanna build a machine - need to know some general things about effective use of time/energy, as well as parts I should be on the lookout for.

I searched on "building espresso machine" and found a few projects that sound similar to what you propose. It would be helpful to know your budget cost and time-wise, available resources, and "must have" versus "nice to have" features. It may turn out that you're better off cost-wise to simply buy instead of build, but you may decide to go ahead anyway just for the enjoyment of the project. Have you read Ethan's Building an Espresso Machine version 2?

Have you read Ethan's Building an Espresso Machine version 2?

No, I didn't. Thanks! I looked at a few of those projects, and pretty much did decide that it's probably not terribly efficient or cost effective, necessarily. But, it'll be a really fun project and that's at least part of it. In most of the threads I saw the end product just never quite comes around, hopefully I'll be able to break the mold.

I suspect buying a new E61 group etc , will cost more than a decent ex commercial small (2group) machine for a few hundred $$'s....Knowing that the groups are fully serviceable.
That would also provide you with numerous other components, pump, boilers valves etc.
And, of course you can still replace anything that is beyond repair.

I agree, and that's where I'm leaning now. I was thinking that I should talk through my options, but that's definitely what I was planning (at least for now), and what I'll probably end up doing.

I suspect buying a new E61 group etc , will cost more than a decent ex commercial small (2group) machine for a few hundred $$'s....Knowing that the groups are fully serviceable.

That's what I want to do, sourcing an ex commercial machine is surprisingly hard, especially for that cheap. I'm still keeping my eyes open though. So far my best plan is taking one that's just old, those are a little more common. I've been watching craigslist and eBay, if someone here has one for cheap shoot me an email/pm.

Picking up a basket case with the E61, frame, and boiler would give you the basic necessities, then it would just be a matter building it up from there.

If there are any local repairers in your area, check if they might have a donor collecting dust.

I suggest that whatever taste you get from an E61 can be duplicated with some other designs - and accurate temperature control will be much easier.

cuppajoe wrote:Picking up a basket case with the E61, frame, and boiler would give you the basic necessities, then it would just be a matter building it up from there.

If there are any local repairers in your area, check if they might have a donor collecting dust.

I didn't think of that - I sent out some emails! Thanks!

jonr wrote:I suggest that whatever taste you get from an E61 can be duplicated with some other designs - and accurate temperature control will be much easier.

I'm not necessarily opposed to a saturated group, but you only start going up in price. I'd really love a used LM or Synesso to rebuild, but that's pretty far out of reach. Plus, the E61 is just so pretty, and there's something to be said for that. Eventually I'll have the money for a Linea or something but for now I'll make do

There are several areas in the espresso machine that are deceptively expensive. Boilers, fittings, and controllers. Try to find a boiler under $300 and if you find much choice in that price range you're doing better than I've ever found. Also, the amount of money you spend on fittings and tubing really adds up. Autofill and espresso-centric PID controllers are criminally expensive. It all adds up faster than you might think.

Good luck with your project! It's really fun to make a machine that's just what you want it to be.

So just a quick update - hopefully my base machine is on its way and I'll be able to get started soon! I got my hands on an E61 HX, which I'm thinking will have to do for a little bit until I can afford to swap out the boiler for two. I think I'll keep the HX boiler for steam, and run the inlet for the brew boiler through the HX á la LM - I'm thinking I'll need a pretty heavy flow restrictor going into the HX though... I'm gonna leave the pressurestat in place for the HX, the system works so why futz with it. I'll use a PID for the brew boiler though. I have yet to decide on a size/shape for the finished machine - I'm thinking if I'm gonna fit it all inside the current body I'll have to remove the tank and outboard the pump, which is no biggie, I was planning on that already. I can't decide if I should keep the PID inside the body and cut a new hole or move the electronics outside the machine. I'd like to move them outside because there's less chance of water damage, but it would make it even harder to move the machine if I ever wanted to. On the other hand, the pump would already be outboarded, so it'll be hard to move anyway. Decisions, decisions!

Plenty of pics once everything starts showing up.