I have always been under the impression that a warranty would include the distribution of parts and not just parts installed when a machine is sent back to a seller. Especially, if the seller technician is the one saying the part is needing to be replaced.

This has been my experience and understanding for years of purchasing many machines. Have things changed that much in the past couple of years or is this just a fluke?

I have done some additional research on this and can confirm this is not a common practice after speaking with a few of the more reputable dealers. Good dealers will honor parts replacement without needing to have the machine on premise.

Quite often the only thing you get from these warranties is a part sent out as shipping the machine back & forth isn't cost effective. If the dealer insists on installing the part themselves then they should cover all costs of returning the machine.

Thanks. This had been my perspective and experiences over the years until very recently with a specific dealer. I know there is a strict policy on vendor bashing which I really do not want to do. I was just really surprised this is a policy of one of the big vendors in this space and wanted to make sure something did not change more broadly across the industry that I missed.

All I will say is this kind of policy renders the warranty useless if the only way it is honored is by shipping the machine back and forth. So for those in the market for a new machine read the fine print on how warranty repairs are handled.

smite wrote:. . . for those in the market for a new machine read the fine print on how warranty repairs are handled.

Exactly. A warranty is not always a warranty, and the fine print is important. I can sell product XYZ and warrant that when it breaks, the pieces are all yours. Doesn't help the purchaser, but if that's my fine print, that's the way it works.

Exceptions may or may not exist depending on implied warranty laws in certain states.

smite wrote:I know there is a strict policy on vendor bashing which I really do not want to do.

The Public complaints about customer service section of the Guidelines for productive online discussion explains why. For the TL;DR crowd, it boils down to "Please use these forums only as a last resort for complaining about vendors." Without this policy in place, not a week would pass without a repetition of the six steps of customer service complaints. It got really, really tedious.

Discussion of return and repair policies, however, are fair game -- assuming that the poster accurately represents the seller's policy and its impact on the buyer's resolution. From what I've observed, many vendors are open to providing diagnosis help and parts to resolve a warranty issue. That's a win-win in terms of convenience/cost. However, the vendor is assuming the buyer can follow instructions without harming themselves.

If I were in their shoes, I'd require a disclaimer before even hinting at how to fix an appliance. For example:

EspressoBiz Disclaimer wrote:Espresso equipment contains controls and conduits for electricity, very hot water, steam and high water pressure. Attempting repairs, modifications, alterations, or diagnoses of such equipment yourself could result in serious injury or death to yourself and to others and the destruction of property by fire and other causes. We accept no responsibility for any injuries or losses resulting from any attempt to perform equipment repairs, modifications, alterations, or diagnoses based on information from EspressoBiz, Inc.

HB wrote:Discussion of return and repair policies, however, are fair game -- assuming that the poster accurately represents the seller's policy and its impact on the buyer's resolution. From what I've observed, many vendors are open to providing diagnosis help and parts to resolve a warranty issue. That's a win-win in terms of convenience/cost. However, the vendor is assuming the buyer can follow instructions without harming themselves.

Thank you for the clarification. I was really trying to be considerate and therefore was perhaps overly sensitive to the policy. Given what you stated, I assume it is OK to be a bit more specific? If not please let me know and I am glad to edit. In this case I am representing my actual experience with Whole Latte Love and them stating to me in email, that parts even minor defective ones, frequently faulty enough so that they have even created youtube videos explaining how to diagnose and replace, are only covered when you as the buyer pay to send it back and forth after they do diagnosis etc. Otherwise you have to buy the part yourself, no matter what it is.

In my case, I am fully aware of the risk of working on these machines and have done so safely for years both under warranty and outside of it. My main concern here is the fact that the only way to get coverage for very simple or complex parts under warranty, is by shipping these very expensive heavy machines back and forth at our expense. If it were a more complex repair I can perhaps understand the need to send it in. But for something like a gasket, a relief valve, a light or switch etc. the risk/reward is clearly not worth it. This is especially true, after the 2 failed attempts by them to get the machine to me undamaged in the first place. I really did not want to end up ranting about this since overall the machine is great and, in my case the actual part is so minor. But, it really is about the principle and what I feel is less then honorable business practices. This experience is a stark contrast to my past dealings with several other vendors most of which, are long time sponsors and members of this community. At this point, I have not heard back from them after sending in an email to customer service, and I suspect they never will reply given the harsh note that I received from email technical support earlier this week.

Thanks again for the perspective.

Most vendors do not offer warranties for parts orders. For instance, when I have to replace a pstat on an old machine, I usually have to take my chances on the sent pstat actually working. So perhaps some of the problem is figuring out under what circumstances the job is called a warranty repair or a parts replacement.

As John says, it would be far cheaper and saner for on-line vendors to treat replacement parts as warranted when they are being replaced during the warranty period; even if the same parts have no warranty when ordered for non-warranty repairs.

Jim,

Thank you for the comment. That is a really good point and probably a key question to consider. We as members of this community recognize that these machines will require maintenance and repair at some point, but we also expect that if part of a machine fails while under the terms of the warranty it will be covered. The definition of what covered for most of us sits somewhere in the spectrum of warranty repair or a part replacement depending upon the specific situation.

I understand your frustration on this matter as I've dealt with this issue multiple times myself. I think its part of the game companies play. "Yes we will fix it under warranty" but on your dime- cost to send it to us and possibly get it back- damaged, with a different problem, etc. Just maybe the consumer will deal with it and not bother sending it in for repair. I personally try to weigh the cost vs benefit. Is the part cheap= is it better to fix it myself and save the damage/frustration ? Or to get it repaired under warranty and cringe on the results ? It really is the roll of the dice. Typically these machines are heavy and take a serious beating from the shipping companies.