I certainly agree that the wiring is different, save for terminals 1 & 2 at the Gicar. Of course, the ideal situation would be to compare the incoming wiring on your machine with a similar era Andreja.

The wires from your brew switch terminate at your Gicar?

edit - And, if you want a blank from which you can construct your own diagram, just send an email.

Eric--

Thanks.

The wires from the brew switch do indeed connect to the Gicar. They are both piggy-backed on there each with the same color wire that goes off to....let me figure that out.

I found this situation pictured below by undoing all the zip ties holding the wiring in cluster through the machine. The I examined the wiring. This brown wire comes from the power block and heads to the main power toggle switch.

Where it was zip tied it was very close or possibly right on the brown wire that is after the switch which has a similar "split" in the wire. I think the two could have been touching transferring power from the "live" wire to the wire after the switch--by passing the switch or "jumping" the power switch.

The zip ties were super tight on the wires. I don't know if the zip ties were from the factory or something. someone did later. I am the second owner of the machine. Whatever the case I would not personally zip tie the wires so tight. The espresso machine isn't traveling an high speed after all

Seems to me the slightest bit of moisture could make a connection between the two wires with this tiny splits. And while the machine was unplugged during my original repair and dried before I powered it up, seems to me it wouldn't take much moisture to allow a connection through these breaches in the wire jacket.


Does that sound about right?

Now to determine WHY the pump would get power AFTER the brew switch.

Here's a pic of the "crack" and it's easy enough to get current out of the breach in the wire using a tester. I was using a test light with it's own power source-- the machine was unplugged. Touching the probe in the split easly completed the circuit. Here's a pic where the split is hard to see, but you get the idea.

. . . let me figure that out.

From the piggy connections at the Gicar for the brew switch wires, one wire should go to the pump and the other should return to a different terminal on the Gicar.

Where it was zip tied . . . the power switch.

Well, it would be difficult to say "No" BUT - the brown wire that goes back to the power block is, in your configuration, a neutral wire whereas in my situation (and in all situations I am aware of) it is "live" or "hot".

With your wiring, the blue (?) piggy-backed (?) connections at the pump are "live" with the machine plugged in and the machine's power switch off because one of those wires in the piggy go directly back to the power block and is connected there to the incoming black (hot) wire.

Give Chris Coffee a call - they may have an Andreja undressed in the shop.

I sent Chriscoffee an email on the neutral vs. hot wire hook up in my machine at the power block.
You must be correct that it is the incorrect set up. I'll let you know what chriscoffee says.

The brown wire--in my machine neutral as you noted--is the wire switched at the toggle. So I guess my theory is the circuit is completed all-be-it completed from the back door IF the brown wire before the switch is able to "touch" the brown wire after the switch. The blue wire seems it is not switched per se.

There may be a hole in my theory. My skill set in electricity is mostly as a parts changer, so I'm open to being wrong. Still doesn't explain how the power got to the pump through the brew switch. BUT my brew switch "pivots" from top to bottom for lack of a better word where it's mounted so I'll get a replacement for that. It may be the way it's designed but I have nothing to compare it to.

(Oh and an old question answered: I'm not all that close to Sovang. I'm in LA. Intelligentsia sells the Andreja Premium here but I don't think they're up for cracking one open. They don't do repairs.)

In the meantime since I do not currently have a GFCI where the machine is plugged in I'll install one there. Do we think a 15 amp GFCI is appropriate as opposed to 20 amps?

Thanks again.

Still doesn't explain how the power got to the pump . . .

If the pump in your machine is wired as I proposed in my previous post and if you trace one of those blue wires, it will end up at the terminal block. In your machine, it is "live" as long as the machine is plugged in regardless of the toggle switch position.

The brew switch (in my diagram) is the first component in line that, if faulty, could intermittently provide a path for current to flow. When you disconnected the brew switch, you said that the pump no longer ran when the machine was plugged in and the toggle switch off. The slight pivoting of the brew switch is normal considering its mounting but when you removed the switch from the circuit and the "problem" was temporarily solved, that leads me to the conclusions I have so stated.

As regards your incoming wiring, it may be something that the previous owner changed - like replacing the power cord with a similar but much shorter one and didn't think much about the wire orientation when they did so.

erics wrote:The Andreja should have a serial number and a manufacturing date on a sticker below the cup warming area. Please post same and, hopefully, someone with a chronologically close Andreja can chime in. My wiring diagram reflects my Anita, serial number 01-27-06 - 04614.

My Andreja Premium was purchased new in Jan of '05 and has SN 01-45-04-05555 (to the best I can make out the fading text). Pictures of the wiring follow (..I have not loaded pics before to this site so let's hope this works).

I will be replacing my pump soon but don't see many tips in the archives (so if you or the original poster have any special precautions/suggestions that would be helpful, for example, is sealant or tape needed for any of the fittings; is it necessary to avoid air getting into lines and/or pump?; is there a priming ritual on startup w/ the new pump etc?). Its not my intent to highjack the thread so if this is off topic then just ignore me

Pat

Patrick - thanks for posting the pics.

Your wiring certainly APPEARS to be identical to Jeff's - i.e. the incoming "hot" lead is connected to the terminal block where the blue leads originate. Your wiring has some oddities - the crimp connection on the black incoming and the white (neutral) incoming is simply led around to the machine wiring side of the terminal block.

As regards replacing your pump, the first item attached to the pump is the priming valve/deaeration valve and this is SUPPOSED to be sealed to the pump snout with an o-ring. As I have been told, some installs have it and some don't. After this much time, it might be wise to also replace the pump's rubber mounts. If you run into problems, give me a call at 301-587-5033 - I'm just in Silver Spring.

Patrick,

Eric summed it up. He gives a good tip on the new rubber pump mounts. I wish I had thought of that because mine are dry and need replacing. It would have been easier to do all in one shot.

When I replaced my pump I did not disconnect the water lines on the front of the pump. One wrench up front to hold the 17mm nut portion of the shaft in place and a 13mm on the notches in the shaft will unscrew your pump from that front portion that can stay in the machine. The 13mm has to be a kind of skinny wrench--my regular Craftsman box end 13mm was too thick, too wide, to fit within the groove. I was lucky enough to have a thinner 13mm wrench from the tire kit in an old VW-- they give you that thiner 13mm- a bunch of forign cars include it in the kit. But you may not have a problem with fitting your 13mm. You'll figure it out.

You will have to unplug the L shaped hookup for the water line off the back of the pump. And when I say back and front-- I'm considering the motor part of the pump the "back" and the brass shaft that comes off the other side the "front" of the pump.

So I spoke with Chris Coffee (emailed actually). They said they don't change the wiring configuration as it pertains to the live wire and the neutral wire when the machines come in from Italy.

From what I've read in posts here and on line the "Italian" way of switching an appliance is having the neutral line switched whereas in the USA we switch the 'Live" line.

It does make sense that switching the Live wire is safer. Chris Coffee suggested simply switching the wire *might* have an effect on the computer. Again while I get that kind of, I'm not the guy to explain how electrical systems--or anything really-- works.

I'm guessing the discussion on "hot side hot, cold side cold" isn't over. I'm curious myself as to what other's machine are--how they are wired. I see patrick's is the same if not a little more convuluted. I also scoured the internet for pics of the power block on the Andreja Premium and could only find a few shots of a machine in the UK which appeared to have the Hot wire in the power block so the hot side was switched--opposite to the way mine and Patrick's is hooked up.

In the UK I believe GREEN wire is ground, BLUE wire is Neutral, and BROWN wire is LIVE. If you enlarge the pics here it APPEARS the Live wire is attached to the Brown circuit in the machine, meaning LIVE is SWITCHED.

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/how-to-re ... -andreja-p

I appreciate all the help on the way through this thread. One important thing that has come out of it is I will install a GFCI socket where I plug in the machine. Kind of a DOH!! moment when it was brought up here so I'll do that tomorrow.

Eric/Jeff,

Thanks to both of you for the excellent tips. Exactly what I was looking for.

Pat