Taste testing and price comparing with Redbird, Illy, and Lavazza - Page 4

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.
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mariobarba
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#31: Post by mariobarba »

Looking at their website it seems they have a home line of coffees and a bar line of coffees. I'm afraid the can I bought is the home coffee, not very good. I guess with the abundance of espresso bars in Italy, the Italian home espresso market isn't treated the same way as the bar market. I'll have to reserve judgement on the brand until I try some of their bar offerings (Lavazza bar bags are a million times better than their home stuff). Live and learn.

Intrepid510
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#32: Post by Intrepid510 »

So if I were to try Lavazza what should I be looking at Top Class? or something else?

zin1953
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#33: Post by zin1953 »

The question (well, for many if not most of us) is
Intrepid510 wrote:So if I were to try Lavazza . . . ?
but rather, why would you buy Lavazza?
A morning without coffee is sleep. -- Anon.

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mariobarba
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#34: Post by mariobarba »

zin1953 wrote:but rather, why would you buy Lavazza?
Not trying Lavazza would be like shopping for a mid sized car and not taking the Camry for a drive. Italy is the birthplace of espresso and Lavazza the choice of coffee for Italians. Not trying it, for whatever reason, in my opinion is ignorant. Once you've tried it, then you can not try it again if you don't like it.

I would start with Top class but really anything in the big blue bags should be ok. I've tried Tierra and didn't like it so maybe don't start with that one.

zin1953
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#35: Post by zin1953 »

"Not trying Lavazza would be like shopping for a mid sized car and not taking the Camry FIAT for a drive . . ."

Mario, clearly we disagree, but it has nothing to do with ignorance and everything to do with freshness.
Babbie's Rule* of Fifteens:
-- Green (unroasted) coffee beans should be roasted within 15 months, or they go stale.
-- Roasted coffee beans should be ground within 15 days, or they go stale.
-- Ground coffee should be used within 15 minutes, or it goes stale.
There is no way that the Lavazza falls within this criteria, and the packaging doesn't help . . . all that much. That is, even if -- as can be the case with Illy -- the coffee shows well immediately upon opening, it quickly deteriorates. (At least this has been my experience.)

Now, there are three more factors to consider.

1) I cannot speak for Montréal, but here in California (where Nick and I both live) there are literally dozens and dozens of high-quality roasters in the state and across the US that are readily accessible by walking into their store or ordering off their website. Either way, I can get fresh beans within 2-5 days of being roasted.

2) If one wants to taste Lavazza, one can find cafés that use it. Thus, one can try it for $3.50, and save the cost of buying a kilo.

3) My thoughts would indeed be different were I in Italy and had half-a-chance to actually get fresh Lavazza, but I'm in California . . .

Bottom line: It's your choice, or -- in this case -- it's Nick's. But speaking from personal experience, my question remains: "why would you buy Lavazza?"

Cheers,
Jason
A morning without coffee is sleep. -- Anon.

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Spitz.me
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#36: Post by Spitz.me »

I don't see how stale bagged coffee whether it's ground or whole bean from Italy would be anything like trying fresh coffee IN Italy. I don't see logic in trying something (stale coffee) JUST BECAUSE it's from 'the birthplace of espresso.' I don't even think it's JUST to be comparing stale to fresh, how is that FAIR to the Italians???

It's more like looking for a NEW mid-sized car and comparing it to an old winter beater well past its prime. I think we've come to the conclusion that coffee changes quite a bit in its different states of freshness and I don't remember anyone preferring stale to fresh...

I dunno... I'm very confused by this comparison and its usefulness beyond what we already know of stale coffee. This shouldn't have anything to do with coffee quality and preparation in Italy and how it compares to North America...
LMWDP #670

Intrepid510
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#37: Post by Intrepid510 »

Oh I just figured I would try just to see what it tastes like even if it is stale or goes stale quickly after opening, at only about 20 bucks a kilo it isn't much more that a 12 oz bag from a place like Four Barrel. I have bought a few cans Illy before just because I was in a bind and couldn't get anything else. And while I was not wowed by it, it was certainly better than getting a bag of Starbucks. So if I find myself in the position at some point in the future I wouldn't mind seeing how Lavazza is, besides some people really like the stuff so I would like to know based on my own experience if they are just being ignorant people that think anything from Italy is better or if it's a matter of taste.

zin1953
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#38: Post by zin1953 »

Nick, plenty of "old-time" cafés in the SF Bay area use Lavazza, and/or some other Italian brand of coffees. You could save yourself $15+ by trying the Lavazza at one of those. Can't speak for anyone else, but -- as you have already figured out by now, I'm sure -- I'll buy my beans from people who roast-to-order and get it in my hands within 48-96 hours. :wink:
A morning without coffee is sleep. -- Anon.

Intrepid510
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#39: Post by Intrepid510 »

This is going to seem backwards, and it kind of is...

So my rationale for not wanting to go to North Beach to try an espresso made from Lavazza is because I am prejudice against them for using Lavazza in the first place, so I could not trust the conclusions made from that outing if it was less than pleasing. This would then require me to pick up a bag anyway just to be sure, so I would be out the cost of the bag and the cup, whereas if I find the bag to be totally unworthy of drinking then I am only out the cost of the bag. Therefore it's actually cheaper just to buy the bag first. :D

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mariobarba
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#40: Post by mariobarba »

Where to start? If it is your experience that Lavazza (blue bar bags and not Qualita Rosso, d'oro or creme gusto) is stale and not good, then fine move on. My experience is that when I buy a bag of Lavazza, my vacuvin container gets filled and whatever doesn't fit goes into mason jars and into my chest freezer for later consumption. I am no expert, just a guy who likes espresso, but I cannot taste a significant difference in the coffee from day one to day X (X being how many days it takes me to get through the bag).
It is great that you in California (or US) have access to so many local roasters whose coffee you like. I have been working my way through as many of the roasters in the list of our favourite roasters thread and have liked some, but disliked others. Unfortunately for me, here in Montreal, having access to highly praised "3rd wave" roasters is somewhat cost prohibitive. In some cases, shipping costs more than the coffee itself and in other cases, once the importer, roaster and local cafe take their cut you end up paying 20$ for a 12oz bag of coffee roasted 2 weeks ago.
What we in Montreal do have going for us is access to a high number of Italian coffee bars. I spent the first thirty years of my life in a neighbourhood with a high concentration of Italian immigrants (my friends used to make fun of me because only my father was born in Italy and not my mother). As such, every house in this neighbourhood had within walking distance: an Italian grocery store, an Italian bakery and an Italian cafe. My last place of residence had no less than 6 coffee bars with good espresso that were less than a 5 minute walk. Some of these bars used Lavazza, some didn't. All served espresso for less than 1.75$ a cup (pay any more and you are getting ripped off) and I preferred their espresso to the espresso I have had at 4 or 5 local "3rd wave" cafes and to the espresso I have made at home using "3rd wave beans".
This preference is a matter of taste. I am an open minded person and as such I will never recommend to someone not to try something, especially if I have not tried it myself.

As for the "rule" of fifteens, I think the consensus here is that freezing coffee can slow if not halt the aging of coffee. This is because the rate of reaction between most chemicals slows as temperature decreases. Another way to reduce the rate of reaction is to reduce one of the reagents (oxygen). I will hypothesize that properly packaged coffee can stay "fresh" for longer than 15 days just the same as coffee in my freezer stays fresh for longer as well. Forgive me if I take Babbie's rule as a guideline and not a hard law to follow.

In the end, Intrepid510 only has ~20$ to lose by trying a bag of Lavazza, but at the same time would gain the knowledge of if he likes Lavazza or not.