I bought the Baratza Vario with my Oscar and have been since then trying many coffee grains and from different places around Montreal. My first was Sumatra Mandheling gr1 from Terracafe in Montreal. It was very good, no sourness and a nice dark chocolate ending taste.

I bought some again and it is no where as good. there's this after taste, a citrus/sourness that I don't like. I have played with the grinding adjustment, a coarser and finer grind, a lighter quantity etc...

I thought it was their coffee grains and that different harvest won't yield the same grains. I bought from another and I still have this unpleasant taste.

Either the problem is myself, or I need to find a more reliable provider. I would like it if you guys in the Montreal area would let me know which providers you appreciate and can suggest. I am willing to buy on line if the shipping is fast enough and if they really seal their bag to keep the freshness as best as possible.

I like a good coffee without bitterness and this sourness, and especially this chocolate taste.

A certain amount of acidity is unavoidable in coffee, and like in wine its also a desirable contributor to the flavor complexity. It is becoming increasingly trendy to emphasis more and more acidity in brewed coffee and even espresso, to the point where many are starting to think its gone too far. When acidity crosses the line to unpleasant sourness it could be the result of poor preparation, but it could also just be a matter of personal taste. You like what you like, and don't like what you don't, nothing wrong with that.

You can tame acidity by using finer grinds, higher shot temps, or (if you roast your own) a darker roast. If none of that works you just need to try another coffee.

"Sourness" used to bother me, too, because I thought it was the result of a bad shot. But then I read somewhere on this forum that every shot is composed of both bitter and sour elements and that in a balanced shot, you can taste both...but neither one predominates. This made a lot of sense to me, so ever since then I have enjoyed all the different layers and flavors but noting that they all seemed in balance...with neither bitter nor sour predominating. I don't know if what I read is true...but it helped me enjoy my shots a lot more!

Nates42, the problem is that with the same grind adjustment and coffee beans (Sumatra) from the same roaster it didn't taste the same. I tried playing with finer and coarser grind, nothing worked, and it was really too sour, citrus like.

My first batch was perfect to my taste and the following one awful. I told them that, and they sent me another bag which was better, but not as good. I did buy different coffees after that to taste them and a few had the same sourness, but milder. I guess it's the roasting and/or the quality of the beans.

I will change provider to compare.

RioCruz, that sourness was way too much. I don't think I will ever get used to that much sourness. I tried the Indonesia blue Tawar and it was perfect to my taste and I will buy some more this week. I'm drinking a "Moka Extreme" which is a blend of Yemen and Sumatra which is very good. These last two don't have this sourness.

I assume you are talking about espresso. The degree of roast will greatly affect the level of acidity in the cup. The roast profile (the actual temperature profile they used to get to whatever final roast level they acheived) will also affect the acidity among many other taste variables as well. How long the coffee has rested since it was roasted will have some affect on the flavor as well. You could ask the roaster if the different batches of coffee were roasted to differing roast degrees. Additionally, if I am correct in assuming you are talking about brewing espresso, you could ask if they have espresso specific roasts of any of the varieties of coffee you prefer.

Of course you could just start home roasting (my recommendation) to control that roast to acheive exactly what you are looking for in your coffee, not to mention always having the freshest coffee.

Enjoy.

RioCruz wrote:"Sourness" used to bother me, too, because I thought it was the result of a bad shot. But then I read somewhere on this forum that every shot is composed of both bitter and sour elements and that in a balanced shot, you can taste both...but neither one predominates. This made a lot of sense to me, so ever since then I have enjoyed all the different layers and flavors but noting that they all seemed in balance...with neither bitter nor sour predominating. I don't know if what I read is true...but it helped me enjoy my shots a lot more!

I totally agree with what RioCruz says. However, if your shot is too sour still, you need to consider pulling the shot longer so that the bitters can balance it out. A single second makes a big difference. I assume your dose ratio is already pretty good since you were previous happy with the espresso. So what I'm saying is, your dose ratio can be changed by extending the shot a second or two to bring out more of the later TDS to balance out your shot.

patou wrote:Nates42, the problem is that with the same grind adjustment and coffee beans (Sumatra) from the same roaster it didn't taste the same. I tried playing with finer and coarser grind, nothing worked, and it was really too sour, citrus like.

My first batch was perfect to my taste and the following one awful. I told them that, and they sent me another bag which was better, but not as good. I did buy different coffees after that to taste them and a few had the same sourness, but milder. I guess it's the roasting and/or the quality of the beans.

I will change provider to compare.

RioCruz, that sourness was way too much. I don't think I will ever get used to that much sourness. I tried the Indonesia blue Tawar and it was perfect to my taste and I will buy some more this week. I'm drinking a "Moka Extreme" which is a blend of Yemen and Sumatra which is very good. These last two don't have this sourness.

Assuming you're not drastically changing your shot temp, and varying the grind doesn't help, it probably does come down to the coffee. Your roaster may not be providing you consistent results. Also could be a resting time thing. We emphasize very fresh coffee here, but some coffees really aren't at their best until they are a few weeks old. If you have one you're not liking , you might hold onto it for a week before trying it again.

troposcuba wrote:I assume you are talking about espresso. The degree of roast will greatly affect the level of acidity in the cup. The roast profile (the actual temperature profile they used to get to whatever final roast level they acheived) will also affect the acidity among many other taste variables as well. How long the coffee has rested since it was roasted will have some affect on the flavor as well. You could ask the roaster if the different batches of coffee were roasted to differing roast degrees. Additionally, if I am correct in assuming you are talking about brewing espresso, you could ask if they have espresso specific roasts of any of the varieties of coffee you prefer.

Of course you could just start home roasting (my recommendation) to control that roast to acheive exactly what you are looking for in your coffee, not to mention always having the freshest coffee.

Enjoy.

just to clarify my comments. this was based on the assumption that the variables of pulling proper shots had all been explored before looking to the coffee as the source of the taste defect mentioned in this thread.

patou wrote:RioCruz, that sourness was way too much. I don't think I will ever get used to that much sourness.

I hear what you are saying, Gerald. The first espressos I had at our renowned Verve Coffee Roasters were like pure lemon juice! I'm not kidding. Not to my liking at all.

Sounds like some I bought locally. Brewed as coffee,after the second I looked for white powder in the bag. Thought maybe he was doing some canning or something and spilt a pound or two of citric acid in them. Didn't try a third, threw them in the trash.