Hi everyone,

Thanks to another thread, I was finally making some progress w/Redline dosing at 16-16.5 grams in a double basket and slowly increasing fineness of grind as the coffee aged (it takes me about 4 days to go through a pound). On Bob's suggestion I ordered some Palermo from Moore's Coffee. It arrived Friday, sat Saturday while I used up the last of my Redline, and went in today. And then things got weird...

I went back to my "Redline baseline" settings and it just poured out. Way too fast, blonded something fierce, directly to sink. I finally got something acceptable by upping the dose to 12 seconds, which is something like 17.5-18 grams (I'll weigh directly next) and finer than I've *ever* had to go w/Redline. Also, I notice that even with the extra second of grinding, the coffee is sitting low in the bsket. I WDT, and it's still just at or slightly below the top of the basket. 12 seconds w/Redline and I'd have to "chop" w/my finger to get the coffee to below the top.

Does Palermo typically require an up-dose? What could cause such a difference in volume (post WDT) in two beans? I notice the Palermo is darker than the Redline, but can't figure out why that would make a difference. (There's also always the possibility that my Vario is still settling in. I've put about 10 lbs through it. I'll know more after I weigh the dose directly.)

Scott

Every coffee is going to react differently, and require a different grind. Sometimes its a subtle difference, sometimes its profound.

There are times when I get a new coffee, and Ill grind/dose just as I was with the previous coffee, and get a great extraction. Others times, I may need to move the mazzer a notch or two, and still others times, I need to move 5, maybe even 6 notches over(which is a big change).

Bigger beans, smaller beans, hard beans, soft beans, light roast, dark roast, fresh, stale... All have an effect on how you will need to prep the shot.

Scott....Being familiar with your machine I can possibly give you some insight on what to try. I will use Black Cat as an example. Black Cat was undrinkable on the Duetto but extraordinary with my LM. The difference from what I have learned is the offset difference between the temperature stated on the PID and the actual temperature of the water at the head. The offset on my LM is -2.5 which means to achieve a brew temperature of 200F I would have to set the PID at 202.5. My friend Jim Thor in NY also had a Duetto and recently switched to the LM paddle like mine so we have shared a lot of information. He claims that the offset on the Duetto was much higher. However this is not answering your question but if I still owned the Duetto I would be checking the difference between the PID reading and the actual temp. It will make a huge difference knowing what you are actually dealing with when setting the temp.

For Palermo. Currently I use about 18 gms in the triple LM basket in the open bottom PF. It's difficult to describe the grind setting but on the K30 the grind is set at level 5 on a 10 scale. I tamp 30 lb, nutate and polish. The PID is set at 205F for an effectual head temp of 202.5.

I just read my notes on the Redline and the grind setting was 6-1/2 compared to 5 on the Palermo.

Sorry you are having problems with the coffee I suggested. I am still enjoying the Palermo very much and once you get it locked in I am sure you will as well.

Nik wrote:Sorry you are having problems with the coffee I suggested. I am still enjoying the Palermo very much and once you get it locked in I am sure you will as well.

Not problems, just a bit confused. But I think I've figured out what was bothering me. The rate at which the Palermo passes through my Vario is slower than the Redline did. I emptied my hopper and dosed 17g exactly and it took 13+ seconds to move through, whereas with readline 12.5 seconds was a consistent 18g dose. I suspect the darker roast, being a bit more oily, slows things down.

Regardless, I just got a 16.5g dose to pull 1.5 oz in 25 seconds and it was YUMMY! I don't think my palate is quite sophisticated enough to discern specific flavors, but it was noticeably less sour than yesterday, so I'm getting there. (I also upped the temperature and that might have helped).

Moral of the story: for the foreseeable future, I'll be weighing my doses before grinding.

Nik wrote:Being familiar with your machine I can possibly give you some insight on what to try.

Did you ever figure out the offset in the Duetto? If not, I'll grab a styrafoam cup and see what I can measure.

Scott