Good day all,

I've a question about a post towards the beginning of another thread...

Someone mentioned freezing beans, because it preserves the oil and old beans lose the oil, etc...However, I've read in so many places that ueber fresh beans produce crap espresso, as the oils don't allow the burr grinder to do it's job properly, hence junk grind, junk pull. I had read that the 'proper' thing to do with really fresh beans (I will probably use Intelligentsia or Alterra as they are both local to me) was to let them sit for a few days before using.

Was my understanding incorrect, or was the information just really poor?

Thanks!

Mark

Rate of Coffee Staling may shed some light.

Never say Never.

You are correct that most beans need to rest a few days before they are ready to be brewed as espresso. However, I don't that's because the beans are too oily, but rather because they need to release some CO2. Extremely fresh beans have so much excess CO2 inside them as a result of the roasting process that they'll produce very frothy crema and the flavors will be distorted. It's sort of like shaking a can of soda and then opening it right away; you'll get a big mess if you don't let the can sit for a while. The rest period depends on the beans and the roast level, but I think 3 - 5 days is pretty common.

As to whether you'll get the same effect if you freeze the beans right after roasting, I can't say for sure since I've never tried it. I suspect that the beans would still lose enough gas that you wouldn't get the same "fizz" effect that you do if the beans are brewed right after roasting. Someone who does home roasting will have to post and correct me if I'm wrong, though.

espressonewb wrote:Good day all,

I've a question about a post towards the beginning of another thread...

However, I've read in so many places that ueber fresh beans produce crap espresso, as the oils don't allow the burr grinder to do it's job properly, hence junk grind, junk pull. I had read that the 'proper' thing to do with really fresh beans (I will probably use Intelligentsia or Alterra as they are both local to me) was to let them sit for a few days before using.

Was my understanding incorrect, or was the information just really poor?

Thanks!

Mark

There has been a fair debate. It probably depends somewhat on the beans and the roaster. For the beans that I use the most often (PTs and Caffe Fresco) resting is important for them to be at their best - particularly is true with Caffe Fresco (and recommended on the site).

My advice is to use the freshest possible beans you can get. I doubt seriously you will run into a problem as any roasted coffee you buy has already been sitting a while.

I roast my own beans, because I am a fanatic about fresh beans. I have always hated the taste of coffee beans that are more than a week old at most. I tried everything I could to preserve the flavor of freshly roasted beans. I do not think that freezing, refrigerating, etc. help much. Then again, I am sort of a fanatic this way. I would go to local roasters and get my coffee beans while they were still warm. The problem is that a pound lasted me more than a week, so I would end up throwing away a lot of coffee in the end. That is why I own my own roaster.

Just to give you a little perspective on my experience with beans of different ages. With my roaster, I have tried many different types of beans and blends, and I get to grind them the day they are roasted and on subsequent days as well.

On the first day or two, the coffee is quite oily and aromatic. You will have to adjust your grinder back a click and increase your brew temperature. The crema will not be as distinct in its blonding phases, so you will have to watch your shots closely or stick to timing or volumetric shots. Sometimes you will get a baking soda flavor, as the coffee is still settling. However, my best cups have still come from this dynamic period.

After about 48 hours and then through the next 5 days or so, the coffee will be relatively stable and yield a consistent cup. You may have to click the grinder down a notch and drop your brew temperature.

For most people, the best espresso will come from coffee in the Day 2-7 period. Frankly, most pre-packaged roasted coffee you get will be at the tail end of this period of time already, simply due to the time it takes to roast large batches of coffee beans, cool them, sort them, package them, distribute them, and sell them. Unless you are roasting your own beans, don't worry about letting your coffee rest. Just use it as soon as possible.

Adrian

Hal, Beezer, and Ike,

Thanks a ton for the information/confirmation, I appreciate your help. I must admit Ike, your post was a bit over my pay grade (for now anyway), but it's good to know that the science behind a good pull is readily available, and in due time I will reference it!

Regards,

Mark

Good Day Adrian,

Points well made, makes a ton of sense, now that I think about it.

I was equating 'too fresh' with 'too oily', and wasn't aware of the whole 'releasing of CO2' process as the real issue in resting coffee, so that's cleared up. I had just read many reports of the Rocky not being able to adequately handle really oily beans, and that may be a entirely different issue.

I have Alterra Coffee Company right here in Milwaukee, about 20 minutes from my house. I also have Intelligentsia about 80 miles from my house. I believe I will go into Alterra and chat with them about their Espresso Blends first. I like supporting local businesses where I can, and I may even be able to swindle some info on when that roast takes place in the week.

Thanks again,

Mark

drdna wrote:
For most people, the best espresso will come from coffee in the Day 2-7 period.
Adrian

I wonder if this may vary with roasters, or even with the difference between home roasting and commercial roasting. The above is not true for Caffe Fresco, for sure, which comes into its own on day 6 or 7 and holds very nicely for 7 to 10 days following.

drdna wrote:My advice is to use the freshest possible beans you can get ... I roast my own beans, because I am a fanatic about fresh beans ... On the first day or two, the coffee is quite oily and aromatic ... For most people, the best espresso will come from coffee in the Day 2-7 period.

Adrian, please tell us how long you have been making espresso and roasting coffee.

Coffee that is oily on the first day is ruined / burnt in some circles.

The darker the roast, the more oil exposed to the air and the quicker it rots, necessitating early consumption.

Some coffees aren't ready to drink until day 8, 10, 12.... IIRC, a WBC champ used a 28 day old coffee.

In winter, a couple of days extra rest, compared to summer, is often necessary for a coffee to obtain peak flavor, at least out west here where daytime temps can reach triple digits for weeks on end.