Italian Import Freshness? - Page 2

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.
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Marshall
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#11: Post by Marshall »

Randy G. wrote:Fresh for 2 years? Defending that coffee on this forum seems counter-intuitive to what we are trying to achieve.
I think that sampling what most of the world thinks of as classic Italian espresso is a very useful exercise. You can't criticize (or praise) what you don't know.
Marshall
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HB
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#12: Post by HB »

For those joining this discussion, you may want to review a similar thread raised last year in Imported Italian Espresso?
duke-one wrote:Hello: What is known about the imported beans from Italy? 1st Line sells several and I want to try some but thought I'd ask here first. I have been using Black Cat for quite a while and think it is fine but want to experiment.
KDM
You may be able to save some typing by copy/pasting your prior response. Jim's Thoughts on an Italian Espresso Blend provides an interesting counterpoint too.
Dan Kehn

Ken Fox
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#13: Post by Ken Fox »

HB wrote:For those joining this discussion, you may want to review a similar thread raised last year in Imported Italian Espresso?


You may be able to save some typing by copy/pasting your prior response. Jim's Thoughts on an Italian Espresso Blend provides an interesting counterpoint too.
Are you suggesting, dear Dan, that discussions like this are becoming (slightly) repetitive?

ken
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zin1953
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#14: Post by zin1953 »

Marshall wrote:I don't know why that would be funny.
Trust me, counselor . . .
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peacecup
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#15: Post by peacecup »

Yes, this issue has repeatedly been repeated a few times. Jim S did at least put on his thinking cap, as Dan points out. The fact that there are thousands of roasters in Italy seldom seems to come to bear on the discussion, however, since all Italian roasts are immediately categorized as stale and of poor bean quality.

It may be that my taste buds are predestined to appreciate "planned staleness", because I really like the some of the "best before" Italian blends I've tried since I moved across the pond. I don't like Illy much or Lavazza at all, however. Anyway, there is no point in arguing, those that want to will try it, and those that don't will just keep saying the same things.

I do suppose that N. AM. roasters blend and roast so that their coffees taste best soon after roasting - the ones I remember certainly tasted bad after a couple of weeks unless frozen. Those Italian roasts that I get properly-sealed taste fresh when opened, and last well in the freezer. But they may also use coffees that taste "better" after sitting around? Or maybe they are just so good at blending and roasting that they make up for their lack of freshness. As one poster pointed out "to think I spent so much time and effort learning to roast" I think there is a general under-appreciation of the long-term blending and knowledge experience passed down over generations in Italy. But of course the US does have Maxwell House...

PC
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ethiopie
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#16: Post by ethiopie »

Peacecup,

+ 1

zin1953
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#17: Post by zin1953 »

peacecup wrote:Yes, this issue has repeatedly been repeated a few times. Jim S did at least put on his thinking cap, as Dan points out. The fact that there are thousands of roasters in Italy seldom seems to come to bear on the discussion, however, since all Italian roasts are immediately categorized as stale and of poor bean quality.
Jack, with the utmost respect, I strongly disagree with this.

There are INDEED thousands of roasters in Italy, and yet which are we discussing? We are most certainly not discussing the über-premium micro-roaster located on the corner of Sangiovese and Canaiolo in Sienna, nor are we talking about the one run by that elderly couple across from Santa Maria delle Grazie in Milano. No. Ninety-nine times out of one hundred it boils down to two: Lavazza and Illy. And those ARE stale by the time they get HERE -- the U.S. (Like it or not, Jack, this is an Ameri-centric board.)
peacecup wrote:It may be that my taste buds are predestined to appreciate "planned staleness", because I really like the some of the "best before" Italian blends I've tried since I moved across the pond.
Personally, I have no idea how fresh/stale they are at the mercado in Roma, or at the marknaden in Malmo -- and it doesn't matter for the purposes of this discussion. The OP in this thread is in the U.S., and the discussion is centered around Lavazza in the U.S. Period. I'm glad that you've found some delicious Italian coffees in Sweden, but it's not necessarily germane to how mass-market Italian commercial roasts are when in the U.S., is it?
peacecup wrote:I do suppose that N. AM. roasters blend and roast so that their coffees taste best soon after roasting . . .
This, too, I should think is irrelevant. If one is discussing the proverbial apple, shouldn't one also compare it to proverbial apples, rather than oranges? In my mind, if we are discussing Lavazza (for example), not only does one not compare it to the "über-premium micro-roaster located on the corner of Sangiovese and Canaiolo in Sienna," but equally one should not compare it to the über-premium micro-roaster located in San Francisco or Chicago or Durham.

If one is discussing the relative freshness (or lack thereof) of a mega-commercial roaster like Lavazza, shouldn't the comparison be made to a mega-commercial roaster in the US (e.g.: Starbucks)?

BTW, Starbucks is stale, too.

Cheers,
Jason
A morning without coffee is sleep. -- Anon.

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Marshall
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#18: Post by Marshall »

Lavazza has five retail shops in Chicago. I nominated Jim Schulman to try one out and give us a report on how well their coffee travels to North America.
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farmroast
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#19: Post by farmroast »

My curiosity as a homeroaster has been what do these different Italian roasts taste like 4-10 days out of the roaster? What is the use window of robusta blends in an Italian cafe? Jim did a little exploration into the age development of the robusta element. A bean that I've wondered about but haven't found much serious considerations in this country. The thought being it benefits from advanced age. I've thought of Illy or Lavazza as just being victims of huge production demands and bean selection quality being effected by that. I tried a bag of the Essse Caffe's Miscela Masini that was weeks old and found it quite good yet very different of course than the US offerings we are used to. I've collected a few different robusta origins and want to try some things when things warm up hear in New England (I use a box fan in a window for exhaust in winter).
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zin1953
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#20: Post by zin1953 »

Marshall wrote:Lavazza has five retail shops in Chicago. I nominated Jim Schulman to try one out and give us a report on how well their coffee travels to North America.
A better test, I would think, would be to compare a bag of Lavazza purchased from one of the "five retail shops in Chicago"* with a bag of the same Lavazza purchased from your average, everyday supermarket . . .

Just my 2¢.

Chers,
Jason

* FWIW, I can find reference to these stores on Yelp, but I couldn't find them on the Lavazza website. Are they owned outright by Lavazza "corportate," owned by the US distribution arm/importer of Lavazza, or are they franchised -- I don't know, Marshall, but I'll take your word for it.
A morning without coffee is sleep. -- Anon.