Hello All,

About 8 months ago now, I purchased a Silvia and Rocky. My shots are pretty ok, I think. I've always been sure they could be quite a bit better - they mostly taste like a really strong coffee. Despite my best attempts, not a whole lot of flavor to speak of. Recently, I purchased a triple basket to try and decided I'd keep my routine the exact same for the first shot. Same grind setting and all. Well, the machine was on the verge of choking but managed to squeeze out 1/4 to 1/2 oz or so in ~35 seconds. I thought for sure this would be a terrible shot but I figured I'd take a sip anyways. Holey moley! It was fantastic! The coffee was bursting with sweetness. Tasted like a chocolaty, fruity honey. I tried and managed another of those shots today in a double basket so I know my taste buds weren't playing tricks on me.

My question: Is this what your shots taste like? I've never come close to anything this good on a normal 25 second/2 oz pull. Is it just the act of jamming a shot worth of flavor in to such a small volume? Nothing else (beans, technique, etc) has changed - just the taste. Thanks

Highly ristretto shots, like the ones you are praising, tend to taste bitter-sweet when good, or just bitter when poor. However, 25 second 2 ounce shots should not taste like strong coffee. The reason your regular shots are tasting like that is almost certainly channeling.

Get yourself a naked pf and really learn how to make shots

Hi Jim - Thanks for the reply. I do have a naked portafilter and have always been frustrated my shots never look anything like the ones in the link you posted. Much shallower cone and thinner stream. I've tried several techniques - dosing straight in to basket and tamping, dosing and tapping portafilter to settle grinds and tamping, dosing and stirring grinds then tamping - they all seem to produce the same result though. My beans are always super fresh as I buy them directly from a local roaster. Maybe I'll take a few pics for diagnostic purposes and post them tonight for an example. I usually have a few spritzes here and there but the puck always looks to be intact and the flow doesn't change speed drastically at any point. Thanks again.

What coffee are you using?

I've pretty much exclusively used an espresso blend from Mighty Good Coffee in Ann Arbor. It's local so I can purchase it the day it's roasted. I recently tried the espresso blend from Great Northern Coffee Co. in Traverse City with similar results. That's the extent of what's been in my machine though I have some ambrosia from Caffe Fresco coming soon.

joel wrote:I've tried several techniques - dosing straight in to basket and tamping, dosing and tapping portafilter to settle grinds and tamping, dosing and stirring grinds then tamping - they all seem to produce the same result though.

Put away the whips and chains, and stop torturing your coffee. Try putting 14 grams into the basket, ground fine enough for a 30 second, 1.5 ounce shot, distribute it gently, tamp lightly and go. This may not be the best dose/grind/time/volume for your coffee, but it is what this and every other Italian espresso machine has been designed to do best. That means it is easiest to learn how to make good shots at that dose and grind.

Once you've mastered the machine at this dose, you'll be able to do others with a bit more sprezzatura.

joel wrote:I've pretty much exclusively used an espresso blend from Mighty Good Coffee in Ann Arbor. It's local so I can purchase it the day it's roasted. I recently tried the espresso blend from Great Northern Coffee Co. in Traverse City with similar results. That's the extent of what's been in my machine though I have some ambrosia from Caffe Fresco coming soon.

It will be easier for folks here to help once you have a coffee other people have experience with.

joel wrote:It's local so I can purchase it the day it's roasted.

Coffee that's too fresh can pour thin, with a dull, baking soda like flavor. Most blends peak around days 4 to 7. Why coffee needs to ''rest'' before making espresso presents a good discussion of this topic, but be forewarned that not everyone agrees that allowing coffee to rest (good!) is any different than allowing it to stale (bad!).

Back to the original post, I would say: congratulations! Just keep doing whatever you did that generated results that you enjoyed.

As to the "thin cone" issue, to me, this indicates the extracted solute concentration is low, so the puck mass should be increased.

You might try a different basket as well. Oh wait he did that, and it worked.

I just ran across this thread on what should good espresso taste like that seems relevant, though more advanced.

Start with the basics until you get a consistently good result.

I wish I had run into the other thread a week ago and tried Another_Jim's advise (about 7 posts down from the top) on my ashy, too hot roast of Sweet Maria's New Classic Espresso to see what effect updosing and grinding coarser would have on it. I had made the mistake of roasting a smaller batch without compensating the profile for the reduced bean mass and ended up with high ET, divots, and a first crack that ran into second on this batch. Something to try if this happens again.

-Chris

Thanks for the comments. I really appreciate all the great advice. Let me rephrase my original question though: Do your shots (1.5-2.5 oz) taste incredibly vibrant? I mean real sweet? Not just a hint, I mean a lot of flavor. Like when you drink it you can't believe it came from coffee beans. None of my "normal" shots came close to the taste I experienced in those few tiny sips mentioned above. I'm on to those coffee beans now. I know they are hiding some tasty in there somewhere. I guess I am trying to gather a feel for just how far off my shots really are. I don't have any shops around me that produce anything better than I do so I don't have any frame of reference. Thanks again!

A great espresso will blow your doors off. Sweet, vibrant, lots of flavor. It can be bright and acidic, fruity, or it can be deep and chocolaty, or both. Around here, I'm lucky to get Ritual's High Striker, Barefoot's The Boss, and Ecco's Reserve which gives me something to aim for with my own shots.

This morning, I had the Ecco Reserve which was rich with flavors of baker's chocolate and hints of vanilla.

To get some idea, watch this video (http://www.vimeo.com) of Joel from Slayer Espresso pulling shots and describing flavors:

-Chris

joel wrote:Do your shots (1.5-2.5 oz) taste incredibly vibrant? I mean real sweet? Not just a hint, I mean a lot of flavor. Like when you drink it you can't believe it came from coffee beans.

It depends on the coffee I'm using.

"Do your shots (1.5-2.5 oz) taste incredibly vibrant? I mean real sweet? Not just a hint, I mean a lot of flavor. Like when you drink it you can't believe it came from coffee beans."

No. Always tastes like it came from coffee beans. But vibrant - yes. Sometimes harsh, sometimes citrusy (if I follow the Sweet Marias recommendations) The flavors are complex - however, as I mentioned once before - the smell left in the coffee cup after drinking the shot smells like a combo of great tobacco/incense.

Howard

joel wrote:Let me rephrase my original question though: Do your shots (1.5-2.5 oz) taste incredibly vibrant? I mean real sweet? Not just a hint, I mean a lot of flavor. Like when you drink it you can't believe it came from coffee beans.

Well, depending on the beans, the coffee will have all those flavors. To me that is just what espresso tastes like if you do it right. Then again, to me, most of the espresso you can get in the cafes tastes like grease trap bilge.

Now you know why we are all so obsessed.

joel wrote:I've pretty much exclusively used an espresso blend from Mighty Good Coffee in Ann Arbor.

I wouldn't. Get yourself instead to Comet Coffee. The house espresso there is 49th Parallel's Epic Espresso, and they do frequent guest taps from Ritual and Terroir. They have real baristas and a dedicated owner who is active in the Great Lakes Region Barista competitions, etc.

They sell all of the coffees, will talk to you about dose, temp, technique, etc. The two-group Synesso there will pull you a great reference shot.

yakster wrote:A great espresso will blow your doors off. Sweet, vibrant, lots of flavor. It can be bright and acidic, fruity, or it can be deep and chocolaty, or both. Around here, I'm lucky to get Ritual's High Striker, Barefoot's The Boss, and Ecco's Reserve which gives me something to aim for with my own shots.

This morning, I had the Ecco Reserve which was rich with flavors of baker's chocolate and hints of vanilla.

To get some idea, watch this video (http://www.vimeo.com) of Joel from Slayer Espresso pulling shots and describing flavors:

-Chris

Good Lord. It looks like that espresso is being squezzed out of a hersheys container. I notice the tamp. The grind looks extremely fine, to the point where the weight of the tamper just compresses the grind by itself.

When I grind that fine my Silvia chokes and I get no extraction.