I'm an espresso noob, no doubt about it. And I've got all the noob accouterments, from the Rocky grinder to the Silvia machine and everything in-between. And I've got a noob issue that I'm sure has been discussed absolutely to death but...

Try as I might I simply can't get a straight shot of Intelligentsia's Black Cat Classic espresso to taste anything like Intelligentsia describes it (sweet, syrupy, chocolately, etc.). In fact, it usually tastes like the bitterest swill imaginable.

That is if I use anything close to the parameters recommended by Intelligentsia, namely 17-18 grams, 198F, and 27-29 seconds of extraction with a grind to yield ~1.9 fluid ounces.

If I back off to 14-15 grams, 196F, and 25 seconds I get between 1.4 and 2.0 fluid ounces (the difference is one click on Rocky) and a drinkable shot, although not one that I would associate with the superlatives usually heard about Black Cat Espresso.

I've tried all the standard stuff, ground finer, ground coarser, brewed hotter, brewed colder, brewed longer, brewed shorter. And about the only thing that seems to really make any kind of a difference is backing off on the amount of coffee (and grinding appropriately finer), which reduces the extreme bitterness but also tanks all the rest of the flavors as well.

I'll note that the grind settings for Rocky to produce anything within the standard window of 1ml per second of shot are all pretty close to the "zero" setting (two or three clicks up) and the coffee feels very fine -- certainly much finer than the Black Cat Decaf that's coming out of my Baratza Vario.

Before you ask, yes I'm using fresh coffee (roasted two days ago). Yes, I've tried different batches. Yes, I've compulsively cleaned Silvia and tasted the water coming out of her and it's free of bitterness. And, yes, I've tried other roasts and they're much better in general (everyone has a sink shot every now and then).

Is this a "taste" thing? As an ugly american (and Midwesterner to boot!) do I just not have the gene to appreciate "fine" coffee? Is bitter the new chic? Am I as passe' as the Tommy Bahama shirts I favor?

It does go pretty damn well in an Americano with a bit of cream (half and half) but, then, what doesn't?

Thanks Dan, I'd read through both threads pretty thoroughly before posting (didn't want to waste people's time if I didn't have to).

I should say that the shots I'm producing look FANTASTIC. Mounds of crema, the whole "Guinness effect," tiger striping, cinnamon tones, etc. But I just can't get this (from another_jim) out of cognitive dissonance:

"The taste is like an English Seville orange marmalade, one of those with the fat chunks of candied orange peel."

Because there're a lot of ways I'd describe Black Cat Espresso, but the above ain't it. And I am curious about the reputation of Silvia and Rocky as "one of the fussiest espresso setups available." It's not a Robur and a GS/3, but it's still $1200 worth of coffee-making equipment. Conceptually espresso ain't that hard (grind, hot water under pressure = coffee time!). Is it really that subject to equipment nuance in real life?

nitpick wrote:Is it really that subject to equipment nuance in real life?

Yes, it can be, especially with Silvia and Rocky. As a former Silvia owner, I have to tell you that she's very fussy indeed, and from what I hear Rocky ain't so great either. It doesn't matter that the pair cost over a grand. I ignored the advice of the much more knowledgable people on this board and bought a Silvia for my first machine. I got rid of it after 30 days and never looked back. As they tried to tell me, Silvia is overpriced for what you get. A tad more money will get you a much better machine. But that's not the whole story. I think your problem has more to do with the coffee and the grinder. Here's what I was in the midst of writing when you responded to Dan:

nitpick wrote:Try as I might I simply can't get a straight shot of Intelligentsia's Black Cat Classic espresso to taste anything like Intelligentsia describes it (sweet, syrupy, chocolately, etc.). In fact, it usually tastes like the bitterest swill imaginable.

Don't feel bad. I was never able to get Black Cat to taste good on my Silvia, either. For one thing, Silvia doesn't take well to updosing. If you're using the stock Rancilio double basket, 17-18 grams is too much. I found 16 grams to be the practical limit. I was able to do better with an LM/Synesso ridgeless double, but not a whole lot better. Most of the good shots I pulled on Silvia were in the 14g-16g range.

nitpick wrote:If I back off to 14-15 grams, 196F, and 25 seconds I get between 1.4 and 2.0 fluid ounces (the difference is one click on Rocky) and a drinkable shot, although not one that I would associate with the superlatives usually heard about Black Cat Espresso.

Many have commented that Silvia muddies the flavors. That's probably due to the poor temperature stability. However, since you're quoting temps I assume your Silvia is PIDed. Even then, what's going on at the boiler and group head could be quite different. One of Eric's probes in the group head might help, if you haven't done that mod already.

But you have a sort of no-win situation here. If, as the reviews suggest, Black Cat requires updosing to reveal its flavor profile, but Silvia can't handle updosing at that level, you're not going to taste the full flavor profile.

nitpick wrote:I'll note that the grind settings for Rocky to produce anything within the standard window of 1ml per second of shot are all pretty close to the "zero" setting (two or three clicks up) and the coffee feels very fine -- certainly much finer than the Black Cat Decaf that's coming out of my Baratza Vario.

You lost me. You're using a Rocky for the regular Black Cat and a Baratza Vario for the decaf version? That's exactly backwards to what I would do. I don't think there would be much argument from members of this site that the Baratza Vario is vastly superior to the Rocky. It's on the order of a Super Jolly or better. I used a Vario for about 7 months before upgrading to a K10. I kept the Vario as a second grinder, and will continue using it for second coffees, decaf, drip, press, etc. It's not a 68mm conical, but it's by far the best grinder you can buy for under $1,000.

If I were you, I'd clean the decaf out of the Vario and use it to grind the regular Black Cat. If decent results can be had with Black Cat and Silvia, the Vario will get them for you.

Of course, it could be the coffee. I disliked Black Cat so much that I never tried it after my Silvia days. I was going to give it another try with my GS/3 and K10, but after reading the reviews in the Espresso Blends 2010 thread, I changed my mind. Evidently, it's not what it was, and there are too many other great coffees to try.

That said, it shouldn't taste like swill. Make sure your temps are stable and predictable, and try the Vario.

The blend has changed again since we did the review, containing a CR Terrazu now. I picked up a bag and had a shot at the Coffee Studio. It still is very citrus, but (if there were such a thing) more like a baked orange tart, except that it lacked sweetness. We'll play with it at the espresso get together tomorrow and see what gives.

Peppersass wrote:You lost me. You're using a Rocky for the regular Black Cat and a Baratza Vario for the decaf version? That's exactly backwards to what I would do.

Not if you have a wife that drinks decaf and needs a "push button" dosing option (i.e. a timer). Plus isn't a good grind even more critical for decaf than regular beans? It's nasty enough as it is that I would want to put it through my best, not worst, grinder.

I don't think there would be much argument from members of this site that the Baratza Vario is vastly superior to the Rocky. It's on the order of a Super Jolly or better. I used a Vario for about 7 months before upgrading to a K10. I kept the Vario as a second grinder, and will continue using it for second coffees, decaf, drip, press, etc. It's not a 68mm conical, but it's by far the best grinder you can buy for under $1,000.

I agree. I love my Vario. It's much messier than Rocky (spits grounds everywhere) but is much easier to use. That said, I've ground the Black Cat regular in the Vario to see if this was a Rocky problem. It wasn't.

As for updosing, I agree about a stock Silvia. You can't put much more than 14 grams in the stock rancilio basket without the puck hitting the screen when you put in the portafilter (which cracks the puck). I'm using a ridgeless "Marzocco" (I know it isn't really, but that's what everyone calls it) double basket with oodles of headroom.

Yeah, I have an Auber PID on my Silvia. And I've adjusted it using a thermocouple and the styrofoam cup method to produce about 196-198F at the brewhead (boiler temp is 214F).

Of course, what I really should do is hike up to Chicago and visit Intelligentsia and see if it's me, or the coffee.

To reiterate what others have said....

If what you're getting is "bitter swill" (and especially if it is thin in taste) - while the shots LOOK good (and if you're getting none of the orange / citrus flavours from this blend...

To quote from my review of Black Cat:

Some derived hints on direction:
- if you find the espresso to be thin, sharp and bitter with a slightly ashy chalky note, you probably need to lower your brew temp.
- if you find the espresso to be both sour and bitter - dominated by a very sharp citric acid note - you probably will want to reduce your dose.
- if you have a ton of orange but little to no sweetness (and no astringency) then your flow rate is probably a little slow and you might want to loosen the grind a bit.
- if the shots are almost without body, lead with a very sharp orange-rind/coriander bite and finish with drying astringency, then you might want to cut the shot a bit shorter.

From this - I think we can start by saying that it's likely / possible that your brew temp measurement is off and you're brewing hotter than you think.
Given that you say you've tried colder brew temps and it's still bad - I think we can assume that it's not just your brew temp that is off - but rather that you have a combination of issues.
My guess is that your flow rate and shot timing are also probably off.

My suggestion as a starting point would be to:
1 - reduce brew temp,
2 - loosen up the grind a bit (and take dose up slightly),
3 - cut the shot earlier (before it blondes).

Try all three at once - and see how the results compare to the shots you're getting now (the shot might still be bad tasting to you - but the goal is to see how things CHANGE).


-- on a side note, the whole "styrofoam cup" thing really isn't "measurement" per se. I'd suggest if you don't have access to an accurate way to measure, it's better to instead adjust brew temp based on flavour. --

The newest Black Cat, one iteration past our review, uses Dota Terrazu instead of one of the Brazils. I tried it today at the espresso get together, and had only passable luck with it. I thought it had some potential, nobody else liked it much.

The profile seems to be marzipan and orange. My advice is not to attempt to cut the acidity, but to maximize the sweetness and a buttery crema. Keep the brew temperatures low to medium, the dose high, and the flow medium to brisk.