I bought a quality espresso machine and grinder but have no idea what a god shot tastes like, or even a mediocre shot. I have made about 25 shots thus far, and all espresso shots are viciously bitter and powerful despite varying most everything. Even went around to various coffee shops and tried there espressos, and am convinced that they have never attempted to "dial in" but just following a protocol or pressing a button on a automatic machine. The coffee shop's espresso has always been powerfully bitter.

I always read about the shots being sweet, fruity, etc. and tasting a wide variety of flavors. My bet is if you gave a "god shot" that an expert said was "sweet" to a kid he would spit it out and say it was bitter. My guess is that "sweet" only means sweeter than others, but that all the espressos are still bitter as the preponderant flavor.

I smell all kinds of wonderous flavors in the freshly ground coffee. Not in the espresso. Only predominant bitterness. Once I add milk, I can taste much more of the toasted/chocolate/carmely kind of taste and the bitterness is vastly subdued, and the drink becomes enjoyable.

Question. Are espresso shots a learned enjoyable thing, like brandy shots, whisky shots, beer, or wine, etc. that no kid with a sweet tooth would enjoy no matter how "sweet" it is? I just cant seem to figure out what the ideal shot is supposed to taste like. The descriptions by the experts always make it sound like something anyone would enjoy ("honey/sweet/carmally/chocolatey/fruity") etc but I am betting that all these descriptors only apply in comparing it to another bitter drink.

I know that my skill is likely terrible despite having great equipment because I am so new. But even when I get the 2oz in 25 sec etc. it is not enjoyable, and neither is same from coffee shop, until I add milk.

Really good question. Making good espresso is not easy, it takes a lot of practice and dedication. Even at a good coffee shop with good blends, a barista can ruin the shot if they don't care. Most will taste good in milk, but are sour or bitter as espresso.

But it can taste really good. When they say honey, caramel, fruit and chocolate, it will not taste exactly like that, not in their natural concentration. But the taste, along with the aroma, will be there and without any bitterness, with a lingering, pleasurable after-taste.

These "hints" of chocolate, caramel, honey, strawberry, banana, spice or lemonade can vary in degrees from "hints" to in your face obvious, but still not in their natural concentration. Sometimes it can have several of these things creating complexity, where I will detect some brown sugar sweetness, watermelon and cardamom, but you may not detect the cardamom.

So don't drink shots you don't like, throw it and try changing things, one at a time. Change coffee, grind, dose, temperature, technique etc. Check the resource section here. If you can meet nearby enthusiasts, the learning curve will get shorter. You're near Chicago? You're lucky, they have get togethers with some of the celebs of home-barista

stinkyonion wrote:Question. Are espresso shots a learned enjoyable thing, like brandy shots, whisky shots, beer, or wine, etc. that no kid with a sweet tooth would enjoy no matter how "sweet" it is?

This question has been discussed quite a bit here with many posters suggesting that it's all relative. And I see that Wa'il just made a great post on great tasting espresso.

For me, with the current beans I'm using I'm getting very sweet shots, caramelized peaches mostly, almost no bitterness at all.

Jim's Espresso 101 is a good place to start with for dialing in shots that you will enjoy.

Hey Russell, I see you're in Chicagoland. Which shops did you hit up? Also, which coffees have you been using? How much coffee are you dosing?

I highly recommended learning to pull a good shot using HalfWit coffee's Triforce espresso blend (HalfWit is the brand roasted and sold by the folks at Wormhole Coffee on Milwaukee Ave near Damen and North - I mention this because the blend is notably absent from their website). I was stunned at how forgiving it is. My first shot pulled was 3oz in 24sec - a gusher with a lot of pinholes. Worst I could say about the shot was that it was a touch bland.

It may very well be a learned enjoyment, or maybe it's a derivative of getting bored with typical flavors and sweetness, and looking for a challenge. OTOH, I truly taste no unwanted bitterness in a good shot. They're intense for sure....it's espresso after all.... the same amount of grounds used to make a 6oz drip, but not bitter. There may be some bitterness, but it's wanted to balance other flavors, and not overpowering.

At the end of the day you may not like it, or you may not have made a really great shot yet. Hell, drink it with milk, add sugar, whatever, and see if you like that. Then you may progress to straight shots.

If you don't have an appreciation and/or liking for complex tastes, usually ranging from bitter to sweet and everything in between, you won't like espresso, or black coffee. However, this extends to wine, amber/dark beers, some teas, etc. There was once a time I thought Guinness was extremely bitter and I snubbed it for over 10 years. I now think it's quite mild and one of the 'blahhh' stout offerings you can have. It's not offensive, but it's not great.

My wife thought espresso was way too bitter. She then started drinking it to get a taste of my 'passion' and really quite enjoyed it. After many months she stopped drinking espresso and would take an americano with milk. Since that time she transitioned, she has a much harder time seeing the beauty in straight espresso. But, we know that if she wanted to, she can learn to appreciate it again.

I think you are right in thinking that no inexperienced taster (e.g., a child) would consider any espresso shot "sweet". Sweet really is just relative to other espresso shots.

One thing that really helped me understand espresso flavor terminology was the SCAA flavor wheel (just google it for a picture). When I heard "flowery" terms like "apricot, blueberry, piney" I always thought "Really?? I don't know where you're buying your apricots from but they don't taste like this." However, what the SCAA flavor wheel does (especially the 'aromas' part) is map those terms along a continuum of more acidic/less roasted to more bitter/more roasted. I certainly can't taste/smell all the flavors listed on the wheel, but I can pretty easily think "oh, too sour", or "too bitter" or "really smooth" or "nutty" or "chocolately". While I still think some of the terms are a bit much (balsamic rice?) and can fall into the "fetishization of leisure" camp, by understanding how these terms fall along the continuum I'm better able to understand what they mean in context.

I think espresso, like wine, takes time, practice, and experience to develop your pallate. What helped me begin to distinguish tastes were:

• 1. trying different espresso offerings/blends from various roasters - this provided the broadest range of flavor differences especially when I tried to get espresso with different descriptions or tasting "notes". This gave me a wide array of the flavors regardless of how well I prepared each shot; even a beginner can quickly learn from this.
  2. tasting a spoonful of every espresso shot I pulled - this provided me frequent opportunities to develop the understanding of the actual taste variations (way before I could describe them). I ended up realizing that when and how you taste matters. You can taste the same espresso pull multiple times - immediately after the pull while there is heavy crema, after the crema settles down in a few minutes, or when it has cooled a fair bit.
  3. focusing on some favorite espresso blends - once I settled on a few espresso blends that I liked well enough to purchase again and again I was able to begin adjusting dose, grind, and temperature to tweak the balance of flavors. This was when I realy benefited from the espresso 101 post that talks about the impact of brew parameter changes.
  4. achieving repeatable shots - once I was able to pull a shot that that tasted largely the same when using the same coffee and brew parameters I could then begin changing the parameters to adjust the taste. For me, this meant single dosing, weighing shots, WDT, nutating tamp, tweaking my machine for better temperature repeatability, and consistent preparation routine for every shot.
  5. talking with my brother - at this point in my journey my twin brother and I found out that we'd both been learning about espresso. Talking with each other about the journey and tastes made it necessary to use words to talk about the flavors. It's funny - we're identical twins and talk all the time but it took him finding my posts on this site for us to realize we were both becoming coffee geeks.

Often times sweetness is mainly referring to lack of bitterness. Sometimes there can be a fruit or candy flavor that suggests sweetness, but no one is going to mistake espresso for ripe fruit or candy. I was once served an espresso that I swore could have had a dash of sugar in it, but it did not. Still if that was the first and last espresso I drank and I was accustomed to fruit, candy, and pastries, I would have not labeled it as sweet. Palates definitely do change, and often lean more towards bitterness and complexity. I've tried eating things that I remember loving when I was a child and now feel are too sweet to really enjoy (lemon lime soda, otter pops, cotton candy, and frosting come to mind). In retrospect, I remember tasting a bit of my parents beer or wine when I was a child and thinking it was repulsive.

Definitely go to some reputable shops in your area. Look around on this sight. There are many. You will have a pretty hard time making good espresso if you don't know what good espresso tastes like.

So now ive made about 40 shots. Now the mazzer mini (grind setting 5point8) puts 13g coffee into the preheated double portafilter each time. Everything is cleaned/backflushed religiously. The beans are Lavazza Tierra intenso espresso, appear to be medium roast to my untrained eye. Tamping to 30 lbs tested with bathroom scale. With 9 bars pressure i get 1.5 ounces exactly of espresso after 25 seconds. Excellent crema. Taste is powerfully bitter. Fractionated it. Wow the first few mL are especially rancid, i guess thats what you call sour. The middle is 80% bitter and 20% mellow. The last fraction is 100% bitter. Studied, finally figured out the brew temp was supposed to be boiler temp of 221F which corresponds to group temp of 198F. However, it turned out that all this time the boiler temp was set to 239F which corresponds to group temp of greater than 205F and too high for manual's chart and too high for espresso. (Crap, I swear i never changed it from factory). So now lowered boiler temp to 221F (group 198F). Ran another shot. Bitter/undrinkable. Added steamed milk, now a decent cappuccino. Will switch beans next or find the decent coffee shops in my area to find my first tolerable espresso. Lemme know if any other ideas.