Imported Italian Espresso? - Page 5

#41: Post by **zin1953** » May 5th, 2010, 10:58 am

Paolo, you are not the only person who loves Italian-roasted espresso blends such as Illy, Lavazza, etc. All I can say is that is has nothing to do with the word "espresso" or la bella lingua che è italiano, and everything to do with freshness.

As Ken (kenntak) said above,

Kenntak wrote:Not too long ago I purchased a can of Illy whole beans. The espresso that I made with those beans upon opening the can was enjoyable . . . The problem with the Illy beans was that they rapidly degraded upon opening, and within a few days were not that good.

Most -- but by no means all -- of the North Americans on this site buy their beans from speciality micro-roasters, either in a store or via the internet; either way, the coffee arrives within days (not months) of being roasted. For example, the two roasters I mainly purchase from roast their beans on Monday and they arrive at my home Wednesday or Thursday. The result is so fresh that I must wait a few days before using the beans for them to be at their peak. And keep in mind that a substantial number of people on this site buy their beans "green" (non arrostito), and roast the beans themselves at home!

I can count the number of very good espressi I have had in the US and Canada from Illy, Lavazza, Segaredo, etc. over the last 20+ years on one hand! The beans do loose freshness VERY rapidly once opened . . .

Cheers,
Jason

#42: Post by **bozzawa** » May 5th, 2010, 3:51 pm

Kenntak wrote:I normally purchase freshly roasted beans. Freshness is one of the major factors in producing a good espresso. However, freshness is not the only factor. I have purchased some freshly roasted blends or single origin coffee that I did not care for and would not purchase again.

i'm agree
i got a question what is fresh for you? how many days is fresh the coffee for you?

Kenntak wrote: Not too long ago I purchased a can of Illy whole beans. The espresso that I made with those beans upon opening the can was enjoyable. I am a big fan of Italian coffee blends. I love the chocolate and caramel nuances those blends produce. The problem with the Illy beans was that they rapidly degraded upon opening, and within a few days were not that good.

also this is true a rules of the our coffee is when you open the can or the packaging you must consume the coffee in 2 / 3 days maximum the coffee is a very delicate product

Kenntak wrote: Thus, when I purchase beans for my espresso and cappuccino I look to certain beans from my local roaster, or when I want to splurge a little more I will get some Counter Culture beans like Toscano. If I cannot get the local beans I like, have no Counter Culture beans on hand, and will use the bean fairly quickly, I would prefer something like the Illy beans to freshly roasted beans I do not care for. I would love to get some Italian coffee blends freshly roasted though, that would be the

I do not know your coffee so it's hard for me to assess, I know very well the Italian coffee because I work with coffee every day with passion.
I can say I've read comparisons that have been made and I guarantee that some proposals blend are of very low quality like Segafredo intermezzo, so not all Italians blend means quality, There are many Business blends.

#43: Post by **beanflying** » May 5th, 2010, 10:12 pm

Hi Paulo,

I think you may be getting the wrong idea a little most of us are certainly not attacking or complaining about Italian Roasted coffees at all, the complaint is about freshness and packaging.

In Melbourne not too far from me we have a lot of older roasters from Italian backgrounds here that migrated in the 40's-50's and set up coffee roasting businesses. These along with the newer roasters make us one of the most vibrant coffee locations going. So getting Italian styled coffees if we want them locally is fairly simple for us.

The major complaint is with getting "fresh coffee", commercially my beans from "Genovese" http://www.genovese.com.au/ are shipped on the week they are roasted in most cases and I order about a week in advance so for me fresh is 1-2 weeks and anything much older than 3 weeks I sell of cheap to preground plunger customers

. Apart from being far more expensive by the time it gets here anything imported is "not at it's peak" and as such is inferior in flavour and becomes bland and dull very quickly. This is regardless of source of beans be it the US, Italy, Indonesia .......

For home use I roast my own in a lot of cases and fresh to me is anywhere from 3 days to 3 weeks for some of the Indian Monsooned beans that like a longer rest.

cheers

Tim

#44: Post by **Kenntak** » May 6th, 2010, 9:23 am

bozzawa wrote:i'm agree
i got a question what is fresh for you? how many days is fresh the coffee for you?

I pick up my coffee beans from a local roaster the day they are roasted. However,the beans do need to settle a couple of days before they are at their peak. Counter Culture ships the day the beans are roasted I believe, and I receive them two days after that.

bozzawa wrote:I can say I've read comparisons that have been made and I guarantee that some proposals blend are of very low quality like Segafredo intermezzo, so not all Italians blend means quality, There are many Business blends.

I agree, you have to find what is good and what you like. This is what makes this exciting. Not only is it fun to try different beans, experiencing all of the various tastes and nuances (sort of like wine tasting which I love also), but unlike wine tasting, the same beans can taste different depending upon one's skill with espresso, the age of the beans, the grind, the tamping pressure, the weather, etc. Fascinating stuff. When you make that espresso shot you love, it is nice to sit back and savor your accomplishment.

#45: Post by **peacecup** » May 6th, 2010, 12:12 pm

What a bunch of HB hogwash. Caffe Musetti makes it to Sweden in very fine shape, and the skill of the roasters makes up for whatever it may lack in freshness. As long as the bag is sealed it makes better espresso than 90% (I might say 99%) of the espresso I got in any N. American cafes. I also like Molinari.
Skol
PC

#46: Post by **Hoenen** » May 6th, 2010, 12:39 pm

Nobody is saying the average N. American coffeebar has good espresso

#47: Post by **zin1953** » May 6th, 2010, 2:29 pm

peacecup wrote:What a bunch of HB hogwash.

No, Jack, it's not . . .

peacecup wrote:Caffe Musetti makes it to Sweden in very fine shape, and the skill of the roasters makes up for whatever it may lack in freshness. As long as the bag is sealed it makes better espresso than 90% (I might say 99%) of the espresso I got in any N. American cafes. I also like Molinari.

First of all, Sebastian ("Hoenen") is absolutely correct: no one has ever said the average North American café served great (or even "good") espresso.

Secondly, there are two major distinctions here: a) opening a bag (or even a can) of (e.g.) Illy for use in a café is a VERY different thing than opening a bag/can or home use; the only way that bag/can stands half-a-chance is in a café setting. And b) I would imagine that the bags/cans of Illy, etc. arrive in cafés and store shelves in Sweden a lot more quickly than they do in the US.

Cheers,
Jason

#48: Post by **RioCruz** » May 6th, 2010, 7:26 pm

Hoenen wrote:Nobody is saying the average N. American coffeebar has good espresso

Boy...that's for sure!!! I would say the coffee scene here is downright abysmal. Of course, I'm pretty spoiled. I roast my own beans, grind them by hand on a Zass mill, brew one cup at a time with my Aeropress or pulled on my Pavoni...so I guess it's not fair to compare what I make with what can be had in our commercial coffee shops. But really, the San Francisco Bay Area is supposedly one of the more advanced places for coffee. We have all kinds of local roasters and shops that specialize in the dark brew (without even bringing Starbucks or Peet's into the picture)...but I can't stand to drink anything they make...be it regular or espresso. It's sad. Very, very sad!

That having been said...one of my favorite blends for espresso is Peet's Garuda. I like it better for espresso than most of the stuff I roast at home! Soooo...I guess it's not totally hopeless.

#49: Post by **bozzawa** » May 6th, 2010, 7:27 pm

we make coffee in Italy for strictly professional use, we drink a lot of coffee during the day in a bar so at home we use Coffee Pods or a moka.
whether there was market Just make a packging 500 or 250 but the packging is a cost so now many roasters for business make the 3 kg can.

#50: Post by **zin1953** » May 6th, 2010, 8:28 pm

bozzawa wrote:we make coffee in Italy for strictly professional use, we drink a lot of coffee during the day in a bar so at home we use Coffee Pods or a moka.

Paolo, keep in mind this website is barista domestico . . . look through this thread for some of the machines we have in our homes.

Here, for example, is my HOME setup . . .

. . . and here is my OFFICE setup:

Like many people on this site, I rarely go to a coffee bar. The drinks I make at home or in my office are far better than I can get from a vast majority of coffee bars.

Cheers,
Jason