Chris, that would be an entertaining sequel to your State of San Francisco Coffee (parts 2 and 3).

I'm thinking doing it fairly--or at least drawing fair conclusions at the end--will still be a challenge and may well not resolve the controversy.

malachi wrote:One day I'd love to see a bunch of coffees from home roasters on the table with a bunch of coffee from pro roasters. Do it blind, with serious cuppers evaluating it. Don't rig it, don't game it. Make it actually an unbiased experiment to find out how things stand - rather than prove a point.

We tried something along those lines with Rate My Roast. It never gained traction, but the offer's still open to home roasters who want an unbiased second opinion from Team HB and expert advice from home roaster extraordinaire Jim Schulman of coffeecuppers.com.

malachi wrote:I think it would be very interesting indeed.

I'd put my home roasts up against 90% of the "pro" roasts in the country....but probably not against any ONE of the roasters you (Chris T) would pick for this test. That was my point.

JonR10 wrote:I'd put my home roasts up against 90% of the "pro" roasts in the country...

Jon, to quote your famous reply: Bring it.

HB wrote:Jon, to quote your famous reply: Bring it.

LOL - Talk about a blast from the past!

The 90% I'm talking about are the ones we (enthusiasts) don't buy from, including Starbucks, commodity chains and small-time roasters who don't seem to be interested in artisan-quality product. I believe that saying there are 10% that we (enthusiasts) DO buy from is probably a generous number.

Hmm-m, how's that Texas saying go about hats and cattle?

Seriously, I'll be happy to arrange a RMR session w/o pro roasts. Interested? If it's too much work, just pass... I understand home roasting is work.

HB wrote:... I understand home roasting is work.

It is indeed, especially when it gets cold outside

After it warms up again then maybe we can. When I feel like the roasts are running pretty good I'll PM. Perhaps you can set up an evaluation for cupped and espresso (separate coffees)

I'll volunteer to do the objective taste test. All of you that home roast are welcome to send me some samples and any of the sponsors here are welcome to do the same. I offer my taste buds for free just this once

JonR10 wrote:LOL - Talk about a blast from the past!

The 90% I'm talking about are the ones we (enthusiasts) don't buy from, including Starbucks, commodity chains and small-time roasters who don't seem to be interested in artisan-quality product. I believe that saying there are 10% that we (enthusiasts) DO buy from is probably a generous number.

By volume probably more like 1%

shadowfax wrote:Chris, that would be an entertaining sequel to your State of San Francisco Coffee (parts 2 and 3).

I'm thinking doing it fairly--or at least drawing fair conclusions at the end--will still be a challenge and may well not resolve the controversy.

Actually... doing it fairly is easy and drawing fair conclusions is equally easy.
I think the State of SF Coffee model is a good one.
4 cuppers - all four with "educated" palates of some sort. 2 with professional coffee cupping training and experience, 1 with serious professional non-coffee tasting and palate training, and 1 representing serious home roasters/baristas.
All coffees cupped entirely blind (no whole beans visible, coded bags, randomized sort, no prior knowledge of what any of the coffees on the table are).
Rather than use score cards, use private notes on each coffee and then each cupper ranks (can use scores to facilitate) the coffees. Results are based upon the aggregate rankings for each coffee.
Open discussion about the flavours etc. One person takes notes and gets consensus on each coffee's profile etc.

Honestly, I don't know if this is something I would feel comfortable taking on.
The way I do things is pretty much about transparency etc - and I'd feel really nervous about putting notes (potentially harsh ones) up on the web about someone's coffee when it's not a company associated with it - but someone's name.
And, as Jon says, I'd want to do it with the companies I love (the Stumptowns and Eccos and Four Barrels and Rituals and Intellis of the world) and while it would be awesome to see a home roaster come out and beat these guys at their own game - I think the deck would be a bit stacked - which makes things a little less fair.
And finally, I'd want to avoid the whole "one hit wonder" thing and cup at least 2 different coffees from each roaster which makes the whole thing tough.

I think a better idea would be to cup a bunch of home roasters' coffees as a sort of State of Home Roasting thing - but without the "professionals" in there. Maybe do a bunch of round and select the top couple coffees from each round and request a different roast from each of those roasters for a "finale" or something like that.