Hayes Valley vs Hologram

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.
BikerDave
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#1: Post by BikerDave »

Hi,

I have been using Blue Bottle/Hayes Valley as my go to Espresso for a while and even after I try something new I always seem to go back. I gave another coffee a try and after burning through a full bag of Counter Culture/Hologram this morning trying a ton of parameters, I think I just don't like the coffee.

Is there anything special about the Blue bottle that makes it so easy to work with? Have you had similar experiences? What would be a new coffee to try that is similar to Hayes Valley?

Thanks
Dave

Moxiechef
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#2: Post by Moxiechef »

I had a Hayes Valley subscription for about 6 months. I felt the same way, I'd get two bags once a month and that'd last two weeks. The other two weeks a month we'd brew something different. We'd typically be happy to get back to the Hayes.

Their 17ft Ceiling is pretty good as well.

Paradise Coffee has a Thai SO that was medium dark roasted and was one of our favorite breaks.

BB's Opascope is a fun diversion as well.

I just canceled my subscription due to starting to roast my own, if that weren't the case, I'd still be using it.

I think it's a great blend and roasted just before 2nd crack which makes it easier to pull.

JB

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randomorbit
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#3: Post by randomorbit »

I think when you have a favorite thing, it's very difficult for other things to compete.

I've been trying a lot of different espresso blends, and other medium/dark blends looking for something I like better than my favorite local roasters Number 5 medium blend, but I keep coming back to that as a favorite, and keep finding myself relieved when I finish my last experiment and get to go back to my tried and true Bohemian #5. I found 17 foot, good, easy to brew, nice and dark with excellent Crema. More on the bitter side than the bright side, but not as good as old #5. I found Opascope very bright, and ultimately impossible to brew well (or in a way that I found pleasing) on my equipment. Its a very light roast, and that's not really my thing, so I guess it's not surprising. I'm looking forward to trying Hayes Valley when my next shipment comes from BB. Ultimately what I want is Bohemian's Espresso blend, but they don't sell that at retail, so I keep looking for something very much like that. Balanced with a caramel finish is what I'm looking for.

Moxiechef
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#4: Post by Moxiechef »

randomorbit wrote: I found Opascope very bright, and ultimately impossible to brew well (or in a way that I found pleasing) on my equipment. Its a very light roast, and that's not really my thing, so I guess it's not surprising.
Yeah, Opascope is definitely light. It took a super fine grind, 15+ seconds at 3 bars and another 30 seconds at full pressure to tame its brightness for us. That's when having some pressure control has come in handy.

JB

F1
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#5: Post by F1 »

To the OP:

What parameters are you using with Hayes Valley? Days after roast date, grams in, out, extraction time and temperature?

A while back I tried this coffee and I couldn't get anything remotely drinkable. No matter the parameters it always tasted to me like a car tire. I figured I was doing something wrong since a lot of people seem to like it. I went through four bags and not a single shot was drinkable. The extractions were beautiful with a syrupy looking cone under the basket, but the flavor and smell were awful. I want to try this coffee again, but only if I can have some parameters to start with.

As far as Hologram, I have been using it pretty much since I started making espresso when it was called Rustico. As of recently I have noticed that even though the beans look and smell the same when I open the bag something has changed for the worst. The extractions are blonding way too fast, resulting in no mouth feel and a bit bitter. I have had this happen in the past with Hologram where they go through a period of about 2 to 3 months(I get two bags every week) where this coffee just doesn't work. When it works, even changing the parameters a bit on any direction results in pretty much the same flavor.

RockyIII
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#6: Post by RockyIII »

If you like Hayes Valley, I think Counter Culture's Big Trouble would be a more similar and better choice than Hologram.

Rocky

Moxiechef
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#7: Post by Moxiechef »

F1 wrote:To the OP:

What parameters are you using with Hayes Valley? Days after roast date, grams in, out, extraction time and temperature?

A while back I tried this coffee and I couldn't get anything remotely drinkable. No matter the parameters it always tasted to me like a car tire. I figured I was doing something wrong since a lot of people seem to like it. I went through four bags and not a single shot was drinkable. The extractions were beautiful with a syrupy looking cone under the basket, but the flavor and smell were awful. I want to try this coffee again, but only if I can have some parameters to start with.

As far as Hologram, I have been using it pretty much since I started making espresso when it was called Rustico. As of recently I have noticed that even though the beans look and smell the same when I open the bag something has changed for the worst. The extractions are blonding way too fast, resulting in no mouth feel and a bit bitter. I have had this happen in the past with Hologram where they go through a period of about 2 to 3 months(I get two bags every week) where this coffee just doesn't work. When it works, even changing the parameters a bit on any direction results in pretty much the same flavor.
20g In
20g Out
29-32 seconds
201.5F
No pre-infusion

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randomorbit
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#8: Post by randomorbit replying to Moxiechef »

That's very similar if not the same as their recommendation for 17 foot ceiling. I found it quite puzzling. Isn't that basically a ristretto? I tend to pul at least double the volume of dose, erring on the side of more, so I didn't actually try the 17 foot ceiling like that.

atao
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#9: Post by atao »

I agree, I would try to pull to 30g or 40g yield and see how that tastes. Its just more difficult to get enough extraction at such small yields. I also tend to find that the high doses (20g) are also more of a challenge, at least with my equipment, I was having to use a really big basket to avoid puck expansion / donut problems. So when I last worked with 17ft ceiling, I was using 17g in and 34-40g out.

And although those 2-day blue bottle old beans pull very pretty, I get much tastier results out of 5-6 days rest.

F1
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#10: Post by F1 »

What about rest time?

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