hi everyone,

i just received my shipments of la golondrina microlot from counter culture, and espresso classico from paradise roasters.

on some other roasters' sites, they list that coffee, like some types of wine, should be given time to "degas".
what exactly does this mean? should i just leave the coffee in the original bag to 'degas' for a few days?

also, is there some general rule to allowing coffees to rest, or am i being obsessive?
ive read from various posts, dates ranging from 4-7 days after the coffee was roasted.

thanks everyone

-phil

I am far from being the most qualified around here to answer this, but I will give you my own opinion.

From my own experience, I have found that after roasting my beans, 4 days seems to be when things come together (for espresso). Before that, I find the extractions extra bubbly and the flavours sometimes a bit "off". At about 4 days, things just seem to come together...the flavours seems smoother and more blended, and the extractions are smoother and silky.

They say to "de-gas" the beans as they give off carbon dioxide as a by-product of roasting, and as this subsides many consider the beans to be at their best....too long afterwhich they begin to stale/age. If anything like a nice Ale, carbon dioxide has a "tang" or sharp taste, which I believe is why some Ale cans with a widget inside use other gases to not give an off taste.

I rarely ever let beans get past 8 days old, as I roast according to my usage patterns, but after that I find the extractions are starting to thin a little, I have to grind a bit finer etc.

For drip coffee/french press, I use them whenever and can find little taste difference before or after 4 days.

You should try a shot every day from the time you get it.

Signs of more aging needed:

-- excessive, large bubble crema that quickly collapses
-- a lot of harsh flavors, both sour and sharp-bitter

Tuning espresso is mostly a matter of making changes relative to the last shot: tighter or looser grind, dose less or more, brew hotter or colder, use it now or wait. It's extremely rare for one to be able to say ahead of time "wait so many days," "brew it at such and such a temperature," "use this specific dose and grind," etc.

what are peoples thoughts about recommended days off roast

i recently purchased some counterculture idido misty valley; it has a recommendation of 9 - 14 days off roast which seems long. for off roast, do you just leave the coffee on the counter in its sealed bag



...merged with thread on same topic by moderator...

Due to illness earlier this year, I had to stop roasting for about 2 months and bought roasted beans from counter culture . the roast day is monday and beans arrived thur, already degassed and ready to use. my favorite s.o. was misti valley which was for vac pot. Nonespresso beans need only one day to degas imho.

Marvin

I usually start using them at about day 3, and the bag will last until about day 14. If I find that the beans do better with more rest, I will do that the next time....if I actually remember. I need to start taking notes.

I'm going to at least slightly disagree with everyone who has answered the O.P. In no particular order:

1. No, there is no single ideal resting time for all beans, blends and roasts. If a roaster has given you the benefit of their experience and made a recommendation, consider yourself blessed and follow it, EXCEPT THAT coffee bars (their main customers) will use an entire bag on the same day that they open it, while consumers are likely to take a week or more to consume the bag. If that applies to you, I would time my usage accordingly and maybe open the bag a day or two before the target date(s).

2. Recommended resting times assume the bag remains closed and that no additional oxygen is being introduced by opening it. So, I would not try the coffee every day from the day I bought it, unless I were doing so as an experiment to determine my own resting preferences for future purchases.

3. If you've bought a coffee and really need to use it before its optimal resting time, by all means open it up, which will accelerate the resting/staling process.

4. The roaster's recommendation will be based on brewing with well-tuned commercial grinders and espresso machines in the roaster's own cupping room/lab. Because your equipment, storage condiitons, water and other factors (not to mention your personal taste) may vary, feel free to experiment, no matter what your roaster recommends. Yes, I know this partly contradicts #1.

I will agree to disagree, inasmuch as each blend, each varietal, and more importantly the taste of each person will by necessity make variable the ideal time of resting before use after roasting of the beans.

It is best to, as suggested astutely, start at Day Zero, grind shots each day and keep going, until you have a feel for how this particular batch will change as it rests. Initially, too bubbly and carbonated, then bold but unruly, later even and blended, later still distant and flat, finally bitter and rancid. Most folks like a calmer balanced cup, where the flavors have mellowed a bit, receding into a more even temperament, and that occurs after 3-7 days for most roasts.

YMMV. For example, I really enjoy the vibrant, living flavors I get in the first 1-3 days despite the lack of balance. This is the major reason I began roasting at home; I could never get a roast fresh enough otherwise, and I would have to buy so much it would go "bad" before I could use it all. It was a simple practical matter. At least this is how I justified the expense to my Better Half.

A rule of thumb would be to let the coffee rest for three days before using. However, I feel it is important to experiment with each blend, to really get a feel for the correct Window of Opportunity. I may roast very small batches for coffee blends I enjoy only on Days 2-5 for example, or if I know another blend will take seven days to reach its peak, I will roast well ahead of time.

I was discussing this with a local roaster in town who used air roasters. He was noting that air roasters lead to a much faster degassing...like drink immediately (almost, and my words). Any idea what he's on about?

Ok so assuming the 4-8 day rule... when I buy a bag that has a roast date of let's say the 1st, is it bagged and sealed on the 1st and then the rest period is counted while bagged? Or do you start counting days once the bag is opened? I believe the 4-8 days applies while still bagged correct? A local popular chain keeps trying to tell me their beans are good for months in the bag. This happens when I ask them to find me a bag that is 4 days old or less. I keep disagreeing with them but I just need to check my sanity here.

Coffee resting starts the day it was roasted. So if your bag of coffee says "Roasted On: 8/1/09" and today is 8/06/09, the coffee has rested for about 5 days.

For home roasts, I wait at least 3-4 days, but thats just a starting point. So if I roasted a coffee Ive never, ever had before, I cup it the day I roast, give it 3 days, and pull a shot, see what its like, and decide what I need to do from there. Some coffees, Like Yemeni coffees, I let rest as much as 10 days, and as little as 7. Yemens really get better with age, and kind of go outside some of the "rules" of fresh coffee.

When I order from a roaster, Ill ask them what they suggest. If Ive had the coffee before, I check my notes and see what I liked last time. Ive got some Black Cat coming tmrw, and most people suggest 6-7 days. It will be 4 days off the roast, and Ill be trying it once I get it. Klatchs blends really hit their prime, I think, at around 8-10 days, and keep it until about 14 days. But I open up my Klatch bags at 4 days.

Coffee needs to rest, but its more about your personal taste. Maybe you'll like Blend A at 4 days, and someone else wont touch it until 7 days. It depends on you. So, I suggest, giving every coffee you use for espresso at least 36hrs, and start trying it from there.

When it comes to brewed coffee, I dont worry about resting as much. If I just roasted something last night, and I want to try it in the morning, I will. Will it get better with age? Possibly. Will it be good today? Possibly. Will I try it regardless? Definatley.

Do what works for you. And taking notes is NEVER a bad idea.

JmanEspresso wrote:Coffee resting starts the day it was roasted. So if your bag of coffee says "Roasted On: 8/1/09" and today is 8/06/09, the coffee has rested for about 5 days.

I think that misses the point of the question. 5 resting days sitting in a sealed bag are different from 5 resting days in a bag that is repeatedly opened. I would multiply opened bag days by some factor (2?) to approximate an equivalence to sealed bag resting.

Marshall,

Good point.

When I buy from roasters, as long as the coffee comes in a one-way bag, I let it degas in there. On the rare occasion that Ive run out of coffee, Ill open the bag and leave it open for a couple hours. To go one step further, I might grind the coffee and let it sit for maybe 5 minutes. This is a rare occasion, i almost never have to do this, and when i do, Im rarely satisfied 100% with the results.

I think that the one-way bags let the coffee degas fine. If I put my coffee in my air-tight container, I notice that the same blend, if left in a one-way bag, is ready a day or two before the beans in the container. Leaving coffee in a one-way bag, I generally open them at 4 days PR.. Maybe 3.

Stanner wrote:I was discussing this with a local roaster in town who used air roasters. He was noting that air roasters lead to a much faster degassing...like drink immediately (almost, and my words). Any idea what he's on about?

My (home) air-roaster still makes the coffee want a few days of rest.

How dark is the roasting? Some roasters with air roasters roast really light - somewhere between "could go darker", "should have gone darker", and "this is barely a Scandinavian roast, and it's not to my taste".

Roasting starts a whole bunch of physical and chemical changes. All those changes take time. For a quite good cup, some of those should be mostly completed (CO2 dispersing), and some of those changes should still be continuing (volatile organic compounds not all evaporated off yet).

I find that 2-3 days rest is a really good start, and I try not to roast more at once than I can use up in a few days. Add an extra day or two in there for the difference between non-espresso methods like I use and the finicky nature of espresso machines, and that should just about come into line with what everyone else has said.

Any set of guidelines is just a set of rules asking to be broken. If you are out of fresh coffee and all you have before you is coffee that was roasted the day before or something roasted 3 weeks ago, by all means use the fresh stuff. Even if "too fresh," it is not going to be "terrible," rather it just won't be as good as it could be. Who cares; it will still be better than your other choice, 3 week old coffee or Maxwell House.

Similarly, if you have some coffee that is older than you would prefer (like 2 weeks post roast), try using it in a cappuccino or other milk drink; you will probably find that it is serviceable as long as it isn't really really old (like 3 or 4 weeks or more post roast).

I always have a stash of frozen beans which I use when coming back home from being away, or sometimes to extend the time between my roasting sessions or to give me more variety than I might have using only what I have roasted very recently. It is not uncommon for me to use this coffee the next morning after being defrosted, even though it went into the deep freeze minutes after being roasted and not having the "benefit" of any time for degassing. In most cases I don't even notice, and I'm just glad to have a "fresh" batch of coffee to use, rather than the sort of horrid coffee I could buy locally.

When dealing with fresh coffee I have just roasted, I almost never use any until it is at least 2 days post roast, although in optimal circumstances I'd generally wait 3 days before opening the bag.

ken

Thanks for the replies gents. So just to clarify, even when the beans are bagged on day 1 they will still degrade significantly after their 4-8 day peak...even when still sealed/never opened?

n

nixter wrote:Thanks for the replies gents. So just to clarify, even when the beans are bagged on day 1 they will still degrade significantly after their 4-8 day peak...even when still sealed/never opened?

n

yes.

Freezing when done properly can preserve fresh coffee for a period of months.

ken

The possibilities are endless...
8 days ago I roasted some: Ethiopia Organic Guji Sidamo SWP Decaf

I have been making great cappuccinos all week and today something amazing happened...

The lemon cookie brightness just popped right out. I did not notice it all week, but today the planets aligned and this coffee was everything the cupping reviews said it should be. With each sip I could not believe the lemon cookie flavor is present today where it was not present yesterday.

How often do you test the limits of your home-roasts? That is, taste them every day until they are horribly stale. Until now, I have been letting my roasts rest a day or two to find them tasting the best on day 4-7. But today I find a coffee that shines on day 8 where it was "good" on day 1-7.

I think I am going to have to start taking better notes!

I agree that there is no rule. For an given coffee/blend/roast/grinder/machine/etc. You have to find what works best for you. When asked, the only rule I share is that the lighter the roast, the longer the rest before initial use..

Question regarding resting or degassing, not sure if they are one in the same....and, I use mason jars for storing coffee. How do you degas when storing coffee in mason jars? Do you just put the lid on without fully securing the top. Any help would be appreciated.