I am a recent purchaser of a Alexia / MACAP-4 Rig (from Chris Coffee) - note: I ordered a LB of beans from them as well.

However - I have been reading about beans, I am certainly looking for something forgiving and I also hail from a local that is not hip on the espresso scene (SRQ). The other issue I find is what was good last year, may not be good this year. I have read the resent fall from grace of Black Cat (yet I have never tried it - but people seemed to be less pleased with it.)

Obviously I need to start somewhere....so the question is where. Sure I could pick up some local roast or order from several places - but since my palate is untamed / untrained (I certainly know what bitter espresso taste like) - I need something to start at that I know (or you know) can pull a good espresso, so that when I am able to do so (or even get close to it) - I can work from some sort of base line.

Sure - it would be great to get a Barista and some fresh beans to give me a once go-round and have me learn good from bad. Unfortunately - I don't know of any good local Barista's.

So back to where to start.

My goal - to pull a slightly sweet, mild, and non-bitter espresso. I once had an espresso in San Francisco (actually several times - some years back) that I never had to add sugar too. It was good, could taste the flavor and it sure didn't give me that after taste (as if I hadn't brushed my teeth for two weeks). I guess that was my experience of the God Shot (who knows - all I know it was damn good.) I don't like SWEET, I like sweet - if you catch my drift. I don't like sugar for the most part and only add the very smallest amounts to rid the acid/bitter taste of the majority of espresso's I have.

In my business a frequent saying is "Garbage In, Garbage Out!" - Ok, I am a full-on newbie and don't know my a$$ from a hole in the ground, however it would stand to reason that pulling a good shot also means starting with fresh roast and GOOD beans - otherwise (it would seem) the rest is mute - regardless of grind, machine, or barista skillz.

So back to my question.

A good mild semi-sweet bean that I can order that (you all know) can (with the right grind, time, temp, and barisita skillz) pull a very decent shot.

Please note - I have searched some posts for similar requests - but if you look at dates of the posts many are 2006 or 2007. Are they still good? Have the beans changed? Are they in a similar boat as the Black Cat situation (debate)? - What is a good consistent forgiving newbie starting bean?

Maybe (a suggestion) for Home-Barista is to run a continual poll of espresso beans - taste, price, forgiving, temp. etc.

Anyway - any suggestions....(sorry to be such long winded.)

I was reading in another thread about 408 - it seems to fit my bill - any comments?

http://stores.homestead.com/barefootcoffeeroasters/-strse-93/El-Salvador-Finca-San/Detail.bok

Thanks - those were the two threads I was talking about, while very helpful and informative - they are from 2006. Does that hold true today? With all the debate with Black Cat, (and while I should probably try it) - is it still a good starting place?

Thanks for pointing out the links - just looking for a FRESH review of a FRESH bean.....

I recently discovered Gimme Leftist to be a very forgiving blend for a cappuccino. The shots pour beautifully and they really stand up well in milk. We also love it as an americano. It is mild in the sense that acidity is low, and chocolate-caramel sweetness is high. However, it has some punch to it, so it might be too strong for your palate as a straight shot. If you are looking for something similar to the original crowd-pleasing Black Cat, I would try out the Leftist.

There are milder blends out there more suitable for straight shots. You might look for a Brazil Daterra Estate coffee. It is a clean, high-quality blend of smooth Brazil crop produced by one of the most technically-advanced farms in Brazil. You can read more about Daterra on Sweet Maria's. Brazil Daterra is the magic behind the ultra-mild Illy blend. Of course Illy itself is stale and overpriced, so I do not recommend it.

There are many roasters who offer Brazil Daterra... one notable one is Terroir. However, I wouldn't start there... many people find it necessary to push certain parameters out of the "norm" to achieve optimal results.

Ecco Caffe is another roaster with excellent Brazil offerings... however shipping to Florida will be slow and they are pricey.

My favorite Brazil Daterra (in terms of price, shipping speed, AND taste) is from Tony at Caffe Fresco. He has not been taking online orders over the last few months much to many forum members' dismay. However, your timing is perfect because he will resume selling online this Friday. I would definitely encourage you to check out http://www.caffefresco.us/ in the next few days.

To summarize, Caffe Fresco's Brazil Daterra for straight shots... Gimme Leftist for milk drinks. Both are reasonably priced and forgiving. I find the Daterra milder at slightly lower than average temperatures, whereas the Leftist pulls sweetest around the typical 200F.

Regarding the 408 from Barefoot... I wouldn't recommend it as a "forgiving" espresso. Barefoot roasts very light and in my experience requires pretty specific temperatures and doses to extract the maximum sweetness from their coffees. That said, they are a top-tier roaster to keep on your radar.

Please do report back on what blends you choose and how they turn out for you!

Thanks for the very detailed response and I am looking into those. I ordered some Black Pearl from Chris Coffee (good recommendations over on the Coffeegeek site). Since I ordered the machine and everything else from them - I decided to go with a lbs of the Black Pearl as well. Got to start somewhere.

I did some local research - we have a local roaster: Latitude 23.5 http://www.latitudecoffee.com/

I don't know anything about them - other than they are a local roaster. I WILL give them a try, but if anyone knows anything about them - I am all ears. A local barista said the Lat 23.5 espresso is a little too dark for her taste - but that is what she is pulling at the shop. I watched her pull - she SEEMED to know what she was doing - but the shot was bitter. It's hard to watch a barista - other than the TAMP - you can't tell what the grind is, no temp on the commercial machine, and it was a 21 sec shot. I was not impressed with the shot (but what do I know). She seemed to know the basic routine - but it was more of a mechanical thing for her, not an art form. Again - what do I know....

I wrote down Daterra - and will probably make an order of that - thanks again.

For a sweet easy to pull chocolate shot, I agree with the recommendation of Tony's Daterra Reserve (Caffe Fresco), and for a fantastic cappuccino, try PT's La Bella Vita.

Good luck!

You've opened the floodgates, Hobo!
I recently posted a thread discussing Klatch Roastings wonderful "Belle" Espresso.
It was somewhat forgiving of temperature, and grind.
Chocolate-y with some dark cherry overtones, nice aftertaste.
http://www.klatchroasting.com


Just saw Dan's post...a good way to go.
All the mentioned coffee's are winners. If you like lots of crema, Dolce, from Espresso Vivace, and Classico, from Paradise are interesting. I found Dolce easy to handle, though some think otherwise. It is nice and goopy, and Classico is elegant.

Thanks everyone.

I ordered the following:

Black Pearl (Chris Coffee), Black Cat, Klatch "Belle", CCM blend (pretty cheap)....

I'll use the CCM to practice = then try the other three.

My equipment and some coffee (according to UPS) arrives today!

ProHobo wrote:Thanks everyone.

I ordered the following:

Black Pearl (Chris Coffee), Black Cat, Klatch "Belle", CCM blend (pretty cheap)....

I'll use the CCM to practice = then try the other three.

My equipment and some coffee (according to UPS) arrives today!

Sounds like a plan. There are so many good blends that are home friendly, IF you have a really good dedicated espresso grinder. Chris' Coffee's Black Pearl hasn't touched my lips in a while, but it was very nice, as I remember.
Practice makes better, so have at it! Enjoy.

I see a number of Black cat versions.

Has anyone tried the Finca Santa Teresa?

ProHobo, I've had the Finca 408 in the last few months and it was still good (if they've still got any). If you like berry-type coffees and would consider playing with a single origin rather than a blend, you might also consider a nice Ethiopian - the Sidamo Dare from Verve in Santa Cruz or the Koratie from LaMill in L.A. In a blend, I found the Medici blend from Mike McKim at Cuvee Coffee Roasting both forgiving and interesting/complex.

I love the Vivace Dolce, a couple of pounds are on their way to me right now, but I'm in the other category Robert mentions and guessing you might find it on the demanding side. IMHO, a change of half a degree in this blend can be the difference between a heavenly sweet shot and confusion as to what went wrong, so I'm not sure I'd start with this unless you're diving head first into temp surfing right off the bat and willing to incur more than a few sink shots.

JimWright wrote:[snipped]
I love the Vivace Dolce, a couple of pounds are on their way to me right now, but I'm in the other category Robert mentions and guessing you might find it on the demanding side. IMHO, a change of half a degree in this blend can be the difference between a heavenly sweet shot and confusion as to what went wrong, so I'm not sure I'd start with this unless you're diving head first into temp surfing right off the bat and willing to incur more than a few sink shots.

Jim, you have a point regarding the temperature and Dolce, though the mouth-feel more than made up for the occasional temp screw-ups!
Some had mentioned getting the grind sussed in as well, but that didn't seem to be a problem.
Where did you find the "sweet" spot temperature wise with your Dolce?
Were you using a HX machine?

If memory serves, it was 203.6 on the GS/3, but it was Thanksgiving so my memory is hazy (I remember trying a shot at 203.0 or 203.3 and not getting it, then bumping up the temp by 0.3 and blam, there it was). Darn it, I really must start logging this...

It also, if memory serves, needs a few days of rest - the last batch, in the first day or two, was occasionally sending blobs of crema popping sideways out of the spout when using the single spout, and completely missing the cup! That robusta certainly makes its presence felt.

When it shows up this week I'll try a few variations and post my notes.

Jim, that would be great, as Dolce gets a bit of a "bad rap" occasionally.
I think I was around 202 with my Anita...haven't tried it with the Cremina.
When dialed in, the pour is gorgeous, and the taste equally as good. The buzz ain't bad, either!

Notes over a week or so:

Beans roasted 2-2, received 2-4. Attempted to accelerate rest of first 2-3 shots of beans by placing in the hopper overnight.

Day 1
First shot - 203.3, very slightly overdosed, extracted to 1.9 oz. A little sweet but not terribly, heavy crema, and a smoky/woody flavor that lingers like dust on the tongue. Pulled a little too fast at 14 sec., and lightening a little more than I like - by both appearance and flavor, slightly overextracted.

Second shot - 203.3, slightly more overdosed. Pulled to 1.75-1.8 oz or so, and still too fast. Sweeter, juicier, still with a little wood/smoke, but much less. Needs grind adjustment before I can make any judgments here.

Day 2
Third shot - 203.3, more heavily overdosed plus grind tightened. Pulled to 1.8 oz or so, 25 sec. Near the end, it started to bubble and some popped out of the spout. Espresso was good, smoky/woody with a little juicy coffee flavor, but I have the feeling it would have been better had I cut it off at 1.5.

Fourth shot - tightened grind further, 203.3, overdosed a bit less again. Pulled 1.25 oz or so, too tight.

Fifth shot - Only slightly over level, bump temp up to 203.6, pulled 1.3 oz. or so, much sweeter/juicier now. Will relax the grind back to the second setting and try again at 203.6, pulled to 1.3-1.5 oz.

Day 4 and Later
8 or 9 shots in, and then revisited after a week and a half and a few more bags:

Tricky. I found that the sweet spot tends to hover at 203.3 to 203.6, with a < 1.5 oz pull, wanting to move back and forth a little on the edge of going bitter and occasionally dropping over the other side. It mellows a little on the lower end of that scale and down at 203 and so avoids the bitterness, but you can sometimes can get noticeably more sweetness at the higher end if willing to tolerate or risk a little bitter thrown in there. Also, if you like that smoky/dusty flavor and feel on top, pour it a little longer (my wife loves this so I've continued to pull her shots at 1.75 oz or so). Another thing - this definitely needs and improves with a few days rest, and I found that I could just dump a 1/2 lb. bag in the hopper the night before starting use, and since this only takes 3-4 days to go through, it does not stale unfavorably.

Hi Jim,

Are you pulling doubles or what is the gram quantity you putting in the basket?

Thanks

Jeff

Ah, yes, sorry, I settled on medium overdosed using a ridged LM triple basket, and haven't bothered using the scale - by medium I mean more than just a hair over level, in fact substantially over level and requiring some material finger compression before tamping, but not so much that I have trouble getting it into the head. I'm getting 1.4 oz or so in 25ish seconds.