Brief history of my coffee experience is necessary before I state the reason for the post:

After drinking drip for years, I ventured into a super-auto. Using Maxwell House pre-ground, and running approx 10 ozs of water thru 2 tablespoons, I believed I had a great cup of coffee. I guess this would be a lungo? Regardless, I really enjoyed the cup, as did my wife and family. Even had two friends who were not coffee drinkers, but they drank that coffee outa that machine and were happy enough.

That $900 machine broke, and couldn't see spending $250 on repair. The machine is plastic, and had already made 3500 cups.

Had to go back to drip. Then, all of the sudden, our drip started tasting terrible. Tried filtered and bottled water, even bought a brand new drip machine. I had to use large amounts of flavored creamer to get the cups down.

At this point, I'm ready to give up. I then discovered the world of coffee shops and websites like Home-Barista, Coffeegeek, WLL, and S1 cafe. I'm driving all over Denver, drinking straight shots, Americano's, cappos, and Clovers with intent of finding some method of brewing that I enjoyed. Amazingly, I'm enjoyed very few drinks that were made for me. I can't figure it out, this should have been the best drinking experience anyone could have.

Several shops were patient with me, as I asked some ridiculous questions on what the drinks should be tasting like. I gave more on tips, then I spent on drinks. I struggled to find words to describe how the drinks tasted, and the only thing I came up with is: burnt. The same way the coffee smelled after brewing, is the way it tasted. I've bought several pounds of different beans, ground'em and used a french press or drip. No matter what process I used (coarseness, steep time, water temp, volumes, filtered & tap H2O) everything smelled and tasted burnt.

I believe I just discovered the (or a) reason why I haven't enjoyed my coffee made at home, and possibly the reason for the coffee shops also: arabica beans. Maxwell House recently changed from robusto / arabica blend, to full arabica. That's when it all started.

I know arabica is supposed to be better than robusto, but does that mean I should automatically enjoy it?
And I've notice that very few (if any) roasters will list their beans as arabica or robusto.

BTW, the straight shots of espresso were the best tasting out of all the drinks. I was (slightly) able to enjoy those, but I'm hesitant on that process because of the cost involved to get there.

If anyone can relate to this and make a suggestion (besides not drinking coffee), as I really like the socializing, I'm listening!

TIA,
BigMike

I wonder.

Is it time to start saving up for a good espresso/cappo machine and grinder? (... and, possibly, even, a home roasting machine?)

Howard

You certainly don't like acidic coffees. You may not like darker roast coffees either. Do you like the brewed coffee at Starbuck's? That is a dark roast, so will answer that question.

I'm guessing your best bet is a medium roasted Sumatra or Sulawesi. You can also try a gourmet robusta to see if your suspicion is correct

BigMike wrote:I struggled to find words to describe how the drinks tasted, and the only thing I came up with is: burnt.

At the risk of stating the obvious, sounds like you are buying coffee that is roasted too dark. The cure is simple: Get a good grinder (many suggestions in the forum), good coffee (many suggestions in the forum), and a reliable brewer (many suggestions in the forum).

You said nothing of budget, but as an example, I bought my dad a Solis Maestro a few years ago and a subscription from Intelligentsia Coffee. They mail him two 1/2 pound bags the first week of each month (I asked them to pick the coffee, whatever's best that week). Keep in mind that I'm talking about a guy in his retirement years who's only known drip coffee from a steel mill (work) or coffee ground with a whirly blade grinder (home) for all of his adult life. To this day, he still raves about how fantastic the coffee is. He goes on about how his friends can't believe how good the coffee is that he serves. He used to scratch his head whenever I spoke of coffee beyond descriptors like "dark". Now we discuss whether its nutty, fruity, spicy, etc.

So what's my point? Based on your description, it sounds like you, like my father prior to a few years ago, have yet to experience good coffee at home, and the solution isn't complicated or expensive.

I really have no experience with the coffee scene in Denver.
So I don't know what the answer is. But it sees like there are a couple options.

1 - You don't like coffees with profiles that have acidity (brightness) or bitter notes.

2 - You don't like coffee.

3 - You don't like strong flavours in your coffee (your description of how you prepared coffees you like make me think you could have educated yourself to like weak, under-extracted coffee, flat profile coffee).

I doubt this is simply a Robust v Arabica issue. But to be clear - there are few if any specialty coffee roasters roasting robusta beyond the periodic roaster using less than 20% in an espresso blend.

Without knowing anything about the coffee businesses in Denver, it's hard to suggest a solution. Given that one of the options is that you don't like coffee - I hesitate to suggest buying any equipment.

Probably the only think I could suggest is that you buy two different beans from a local roaster who roasts reasonably light (look for very little to no visible oil on the surface of the beans). Ask for one "high grown central american" (I'd suggest looking for a coffee from Costa Rica). And then one coffee that is either a Sulawesi or a "naturally processed Brazilian". Get the coffee ground for you (for drip).
In the first few days, try each one in two different ways - first as specified, second with 2/3 the amount of coffee you would normally use.
Wait a couple days. Then repeat.
Wait a couple days. Repeat.

If you like the coffee with the lower dose - this will give you an idea of what's going on and we can help.
If the older the coffee gets, the more you like it - this will give you an idea of what's going on and we can help.
And then you should track which coffee you like more at each prep - this will help us help you.


Sorry - best I can do.

I apologize for the OP as I'm sure appeared to be all over the place, and I greatly appreciate all the responses.

howard seth wrote:I wonder. Is it time to start saving up for a good espresso/cappo machine and grinder? (... and, possibly, even, a home roasting machine?) Howard

Being that I (and my SO) have been hating the drip since around Jan 2008, I've had plenty of opportunity to consider what you are suggesting. However, because of the cost involved, I have to be sure this is the correct approach, hence, my massive drinking, and this post.

My wish list is a Vivaldi II and Cimbali Max Hybrid.

IRT another post, I've sampled just about every type of roast that was available at one shop. I went from their lightest roast to the darkest, and I experienced the same smell and taste.

Without wanting to give up drinking coffee, I bought two different beans, requesting light roasts:

Ojo de Agua - Volcan, Panama
Nuances - Spicy, Tangy, Sweet Wood, Savory

the other I cannot identify.

Brought the beans home, and made dozens attempts. I could not get away from the smell and taste of, with no better way to articulate the taste - burnt. I even experienced this with Peet's House Blend from a grocery store.

Friday I'll be making one further attempt at a local shop, but drinking only espresso, and espresso based drinks. If I find that I can enjoy anyone of these, then my decision to give up on drip & FP and move to espresso, will be made.

I still can't rest easy knowing what my problem is with all the coffee I've been drinking. You know, how can you fix it, if you don't know why it's broke.

I'll be sure and post my results.

Thanks again,
BigMike

The flavour profile of a coffee changes over time from when it was roasted. One or two days after and I get pronounced acidity. Anything over two weeks after roast date and the roast starts to take over. Could it be that the coffees you were trying had been older than was really optimum?

Just another variable to look for, and something to consider.

BigMike wrote:I apologize for the OP as I'm sure appeared to be all over the place, and I greatly appreciate all the responses.
BigMike

Couple of things you might try that are "non-coffee" per-se. You seem to like a sweeter smoother coffee. You might want to pick up a Toddy, which is a cold water extraction process. I suspect it won't be too popular a suggestion here. But it does make a sweet, smooth cup. Another possibility would be a Chemex - an hour glass shaped brewing device which allows you to control the temperature of the extraction manually.

The other thing I wonder - maybe you rejected fixing the old machine too soon. You really enjoyed the coffee from it. Maybe fixing it isn't such a bad idea, or alternatively, finding a similar new one at Williams-Sonoma. I'd maybe try a few Nespresso shots there as well, which tend to be a little more toward the taste profile I think you were getting with the other machine. My son wanted a simple, no fuss approach to espresso and while it wasn't the taste I was looking for, he has enjoyed it.

Along similar lines: an Aeropress allows considerable control over the brewing process, you get a smooth cup, and it's cheap. Of course you'll need decent beans and a half-decent grinder, eg Maestro.

I'd suggest to the OP that he try a pound of a medium roast from one of the good Internet sellers; see the commerce list under Resources for the usual suspects. I agree with the suggestion of an Indonesian or natural process Brazilian coffee. If that tastes good, it's the beans. If not, it's preparation, or he just doesn't care for arabica in the usual sense. For experimenting with preparation, I'd look at Aeropress first, or maybe a simple filter cone, and then vary times, water temp, and grind. I'd definitely not spend several grand on machinery without at least some promise of success!

BigMike wrote:I know arabica is supposed to be better than robusto, but does that mean I should automatically enjoy it? ... And I've notice that very few (if any) roasters will list their beans as arabica or robusto.

That robusta beans are inferior to arabica is a generality which unfortunately tars all robusta beans with the same broad brush. Low-quality robusta could be used to make that tar. High-quality robustas, however, can add depth and complexity to espresso roasts analogous to the way a few percent Gewürztraminer can make a fine Riesling more complex. So you can abandon this notion. Try some Caffe D'Arte blends if you'd like to taste some fine artisanal robusta-arabica blends for yourself. Their Firenze espresso also works well when coarsely ground as french press. [Newbie tip: the further south the city or region name given to their blend, the darker the roast.] Buy it whole bean and invest in a $100 burr grinder for the french press, which you can sell on eBay for $75 later if you like the flavors and decide to upgrade to a better grinder, which is necessary for good espresso.