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Europeans please chime in: European compared to North American espresso style

Postby Chert on Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:28 pm

We'll see if this topic gets any mileage. When I was in Germany and spent some time in France as well, the drip coffee I had carried an unmistakable robusta flavor that was superior (IMHO) to that found in US supermarket coffees. I am wondering if you European espresso fanatics can describe a different character of the espresso blends/beans you buy fresh over there due to a more dominant Indian origin or robusta cultivar or other.
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Postby poison on Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:39 pm

Friends of mine just came back from 6 weeks in Italy. They said nearly every place they tried espresso really pushed the 'It's Arabica' angle, which I found very interesting, given their penchant for using a certain percentage of robusta in espresso.
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Postby Stuggi on Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:53 pm

The drip here in Finland is quite good, we have two coffees that are drinkable when brewed right (no where near fresh of course but still), the golden standard "Juhlamocha" ("party mocha") and "Presidentti" ("president"). These are good roasts of what I consider ok/good coffee, probably high in arabica due to what I perceive as low caffeine content compared to other brands of low quality stuff. Still, nothing earth shattering but good non-the-less. The espresso that's served in bars is either from Paulig or Robert Paulig (old family that's been roasting coffee for centuries), Paulig is the maker of the two above brands. Then you also see a lot of Illy, Moak, Monteriva etc.


Then we have all kinds of specialty coffees for espresso (aka fresh roasted), quite like the international offerings, a bit of SO etc. Most are probably 100% arabica, I'm not so well versed in them to be honest, only tried a bit here and there.
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Postby poison on Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:42 pm

Finland has the highest coffee consumption per capita. It better be decent. :twisted:

'Party mocha'? That's awesome! I'm sure it outsells the 'president' 1000 to 1, I mean, come on! The Party Mocha, with the 'oontz oontz' of the techno music in one corner, vs. El Presidente with its somber dirge in the other. Give me the party in the cup, to go!
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Postby Looping on Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:27 pm

:D

@ Flint
I hope I got your question right as, unfortunately, I do not yet know any US American espresso blend :-(
(At least I'm going to receive my first Canadian one soon and I can't wait to enjoy it!)
Throughout the last few years, in German supermarkets "100% Arabica" (and fair trade resp. organically grown beans) has become trendy.
Well known German roaster brands are Tchibo (which even carry a "private coffee" luxury line and have own shops, too), Jacobs, Darboven, Dallmayr, Melitta to name a few.
Sadly, most have undergone a quick industrial roasting process and do not originate from a drum roaster.
As to espresso, there's Illy (arabica), Lavazza (with robusta) and espresso blends by the a.m. German roasters (which are mostly "100% arabica").
Therefore, it's worth to go to one of the Italian supermarkets where many famous brands can be found (e.g. Kimbo, Segafredo, Casa Rinaldi, S-Caffè Schreyoegg, Ionia, Zicaffè) and further Italian varieties with an authentic (big) share of robusta, less famous but nontheless delicious and sometimes unfamiliar to our taste habits. For those outside bigger cities, online shops offering Italian or Swiss esrpesso blends are of helpful service. If you get a fresh bag, meaning it has been roasted 1 - 2 months before, you're lucky.
But if you're looking for really fresh roasted beans, you go to a local German roaster (most of them also have online shops). There are also some Italian roasters in Germany. These roasters offer specialty coffees, single origins, even cup of excellence beans, always high quality and long time roasted. Consequently, the coffee's more expensive (e.g. 20 Euro/kg vs. 12 Euro/kg - but the quality is so much superior you would have expected a much higher price...). Espresso gourmets preferably shop there or even roast themselves.
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Postby Chert on Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:44 pm

Interesting Tanja and Stuggi and thanks for the replies. If I ever take the opportunity to return to Germany I should look up some espresso gourmet like yourself and bring over some fresh roast to share and get some tips on a good roaster for beans to bring back. 18 years ago when I was there I enjoyed Cafe Kimbo brewed in a mokka pot. Otherwise I was drinking drip from some of the others you mention Melitta, Tchibo and Eduscho (sp?) as well. Regards!
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Postby Looping on Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:15 pm

So you're really familiar with the German coffee tradition 8) Eduscho "Gala" is still available as "Gala" (owned by Tchibo) but the Eduscho coffee (drip coffee and non-food presents) stores have disappeared.

I used to drink Lavazza (crema e gusto) out of a mokka pot before I discovered genuine espresso. :mrgreen:

I forgot to mention that the small craftsmanship roasteries mostly offer various espresso blends, from the classic Italian 80/20 or 70/30 (arabica/robusta) to 100% arabica (top quality), rarely 60/40 (with robusta of very good quality).

If you happen to visit Germany again, I hope a lot has changed, approaching a better quality of coffee.
Nowadays, many people own a fully automatic and quite expensive (e.g. Italian Saeco, DeLonghi, Swiss Jura or German WMF...) coffee/espresso machine or a coffee pad machine (brewing at 1 bar). But still, the espresso/cappuccino/latte macchiato is thin with hard foam on the top and the good old drip coffee made by a simple, classic machine or by hand via a china filter was superior to the thin coffee out of a pad machine...
Most people haven't yet discovered the importance of quality beans and buy the supermarket brands (now beans, not preground). On the other hand, there's this delightful trend towards grand cuvées and many good small roasteries have appeared throughout the country. :D
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Postby akallio on Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:12 am

Stuggi wrote:The drip here in Finland is quite good,


Well... It could be worse. Traditional Finnish coffee is roasted strictly to first crack, so it will be as lightly roasted as possible. When the beans aren't that great I would prefer a darker roast.

These are good roasts of what I consider ok/good coffee, probably high in arabica due to what I perceive as low caffeine content compared to other brands of low quality stuff.


They are 100% Arabica, as are many other Finnish coffees also. However the beans are nothing special, because the price you pay for the (largely advertised) coffees in stores is less than what gourmet roasters pay for their greens.

Then we have all kinds of specialty coffees for espresso (aka fresh roasted), quite like the international offerings, a bit of SO etc. Most are probably 100% arabica, I'm not so well versed in them to be honest, only tried a bit here and there.


That's my impression also. The budding Finnish specialty roaster business was first mimicking Italian coffee, but is now converting into Arabica, SO's, lighter roasts etc. like everyone else (except the Italians).

'Party mocha'? That's awesome! I'm sure it outsells the 'president' 1000 to 1, I mean, come on! The Party Mocha, with the 'oontz oontz' of the techno music in one corner, vs. El Presidente with its somber dirge in the other. Give me the party in the cup, to go!


Sorry to disappoint, but maybe a more precise translation would be "Celebration Mocha". Maybe "Techno Mocha" will be out some day. :)
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Postby Chert on Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:04 pm

I saw this old thread and my thoughts go to the European coffee scene.

The disloyalty card discussed here recently highlighted the East London espresso scene. This reminded me of a coffee I had in Houston before Christmas. One of the best cafes there, pulled on a Synesso but it underlined the roaster's notes from the Has Bean website. Re: Kicker espresso:

Following on from the Jailbreak Espresso Blend, the plan is to build a range of espresso blends along a similar line, but all with very different goals and ideals. This is a super premium, super delicious, challenging, difficult [italics are mine] blend that when it is right it sings like an angel.

This blend may need a machine and a level of precision to get exactly right, so its not for the uninitiated, and certainly not for the faint hearted. It will take work to nail exactly right, but when you do it is an amazing blend.

But when it is right expect a bight espresso with sweetness and substance, with sherbet lemons, with oranges and a vibrant effervescence that works super well in espresso and cuts through the milk in a pleasing way. A grown up coffee blend.


If I were to pass through England, I would pick up a bag, to try to make a shot, nailed exactly right.
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