Confused by Mr. Espresso

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.
RyanJE
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Joined: 9 years ago

#1: Post by RyanJE »

Hello All. So I will be in the Bay Area next week and frequent there basically monthly. I decided to try some coffee from Mr. Espresso since historically I go with all the newer 3rd wave shops in the area. I asked them how long post roast the coffee would be and here was the reply...

"Your coffee will be about 2 weeks old. That is actually when the beans reach its peak freshness. That's strange that the other roasting companies offer their coffee soon after it's been roasted. But, maybe there is a certain flavor they are going for."

So here is the really confusing part. I have had their coffees a few times at East Bay Coffee in Pinole a few times and they have been great. I never asked how long after roast they were and just assumed they were fresh.
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....

escape
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#2: Post by escape »

I would consider anything up to about 3 weeks old to still be fresh and produce decent crema. But I would not wait 2 weeks after "roasted on" date to start using it either.

Sgt.Coffee
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#3: Post by Sgt.Coffee »

Doesn't sound that confusing and you've answered your own question.

You had a coffee you liked, they advised they serve it around 2 weeks (could be 10-18 days) as that's best for the bean, and you think it's 'great' so presumably agree with them...

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TomC
Team HB
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#4: Post by TomC »

Here's my thoughts on this and I'm not saying it's an objective fact.

I think all the stereotypical 3rd wave light roasts that only peak after 5 days of rest due to all the bound CO2, then fall off quickly after day 10-12 specifically because they lack the abundant flavor compounds that are developed in a roast that is taken to the level that Mr Espresso typically does.

A roast that closer matches a northern Italian classic espresso roast has much more flavor compounds to extract from spending more time in the maillard phase of the roast. The light acids that are very volatile flash off a bean much faster, and if there's not much to a coffee besides those light acid notes, it's going to hollow out rather quickly once their gone. Conversely, the darker roasts still contain a lot of those heavier distillates and flavor compounds that hang on longer.

I'm not surprised to see a 2 week recommendation from Mr Espresso at all. I've experienced greater longevity from coffees like them than anything that was terroir focused and lighter. This is likely in part why we see so much praise and interest in the Kimbo style Italian blends that taste great way longer than anything else.
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RyanJE (original poster)
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Joined: 9 years ago

#5: Post by RyanJE (original poster) »

Sgt.Coffee wrote:Doesn't sound that confusing and you've answered your own question.

You had a coffee you liked, they advised they serve it around 2 weeks (could be 10-18 days) as that's best for the bean, and you think it's 'great' so presumably agree with them...

I think maybe you mis-understood what I wrote.

I said I had coffee of theirs brewed at an independent shop (East Bay Coffee) that was good. I have no idea how long post roast it was.

Buying direct from Mr. Espresso is a completely different thing. As they dont roast date their bags, maybe they are no better for a specialty consumer than Starbucks?
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....

RyanJE (original poster)
Posts: 1519
Joined: 9 years ago

#6: Post by RyanJE (original poster) »

TomC wrote:Here's my thoughts on this and I'm not saying it's an objective fact.

I think all the stereotypical 3rd wave light roasts that only peak after 5 days of rest due to all the bound CO2, then fall off quickly after day 10-12 specifically because they lack the abundant flavor compounds that are developed in a roast that is taken to the level that Mr Espresso typically does.

A roast that closer matches a northern Italian classic espresso roast has much more flavor compounds to extract from spending more time in the maillard phase of the roast. The light acids that are very volatile flash off a bean much faster, and if there's not much to a coffee besides those light acid notes, it's going to hollow out rather quickly once their gone. Conversely, the darker roasts still contain a lot of those heavier distillates and flavor compounds that hang on longer.

I'm not surprised to see a 2 week recommendation from Mr Espresso at all. I've experienced greater longevity from coffees like them than anything that was terroir focused and lighter. This is likely in part why we see so much praise and interest in the Kimbo style Italian blends that taste great way longer than anything else.
Now this is an informative post. As one can imagine, the statement from Mr. Epresso goes against everything I have learned over the past couple years. And that is a lot thanks to HB!

Tom,

I believe you are a bay area resident. Do you have much experience with Mr. Espresso coffees? Also, I was looking at some of the items they termed "light" roasts, not just their more developed espressos. Would those maybe not be as good after 2 weeks?

Before I drop $100 on coffee, want to make sure its not going to be wasted.
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....

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Almico
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#7: Post by Almico »

I've been drinking some Essse Caffe Miscela Masini for the past 2 weeks. By the label it appears it was roasted in January.

The crema is well beyond what I would normally get with a FC+ Brazil a day off the roast. The flavors are surprisingly fruity (almost too much so), and there is obviously a lighter roasted bean in the blend. There are no oils present on any of the beans. I do not get any off flavors or bitterness and straight doppios are very approachable.

Hum...

portamento
Posts: 377
Joined: 16 years ago

#8: Post by portamento »

2 weeks in a sealed bag usually tastes great when first opened. This is true for many roasting styles; it's not proprietary to Mr. Espresso. The problem is, how many home users can use up the entire bag on the same day they buy it? It takes most people several days to get through the bag and once it has been opened, oxidation usually accelerates.

For that reason, a lot of people prefer to purchase their coffee before it's peaking, to have a chance to ride the coffee up and down the peak. That gives the widest sweet spot in terms of days of usage. The mountain is gently sloping -- it's not like there is a magical day when the coffee tastes amazing, surrounded by days when the coffee tastes terrible.

As an aside... It sounds like the bag you were considering didn't have a roast date on it. In the absence of a roast date, one should take with a grain of salt any assurances that the coffee is conveniently hitting its peak at the time of sale.
Ryan

nuketopia
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#9: Post by nuketopia »

I will not buy coffee without a roasted-on date, period.

It only serves the interests of the vendor, not the consumer, not indicating the roast date.

RyanJE (original poster)
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#10: Post by RyanJE (original poster) replying to nuketopia »

I agree and that has been my approach all along. I am surprised they don't do this given their reputation.

I have a "local" roaster (as in 30 minutes is my closest roaster) that I wont buy from because they dont roast date....Its always "its fresh we roast all the time".

They even put a best by date on their grocery line but refuse to answer me about the logic so I could work back toward a roast date.
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....

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