Thank you.

Abe - great post! Thanks!

Abe Carmeli wrote:...the first joint... was a very typical Italian espresso place... I ordered a shot, paid 75 cents, and waited my turn. The barista flap the doser once, presses the portafilter against the grinder plastic tamper, inserts the p/f and pulls the shot. 35 seconds later I get a shot with a nice head of crema, muted acidity, and pleasantly sweet. He practically broke all he rules: That coffee was preground hours ago, he did not wipe clean the basket, he did not flush the grouphead before the shot, he did not level or tamp with any force. He practically did nothing, and still, it was a better shot than I got from many contestants in U.S. Barista competitions.

I was afraid of reading something like this. Guess it's back to the drawing board, folks. Toss out your fancy tampers, reattach the plastic doodad, fuggedabout thwacking the doser lever, start using preground...

More seriously: thanks for allowing us to experience your travels vicariously. I also haven't been to Italy since my twenties. High time for a return trip! (And how the heck do they pull a decent shot with preground coffee?!?)

RapidCoffee wrote: (And how the heck do they pull a decent shot with pre-ground coffee?!?)

I was able to get a decent shot only in the mornings, which is probably because the pre-ground wasn't too old. But still, it was at least an hour in the doser.

Thanks a lot for your description!

Abe Carmeli wrote:Most coffee shops serve decent espresso and some even good espresso.

Now I can finally let go of the doubts, if I ever had a halfway decent espresso in my life. Actually - and luckily - the italians forced me into drinking espresso, as I couldn't drink swiss cremas there (which I was previously accustomed to). But after the first few month's of reading form you guys here, I started to doubt if the espresso 'standard' i know, is anywhere near 'enjoyable' for someone accustomed to the quality like the top coffee houses in north america reach.

The one specific culinary memory I still have from my visit is the superb pastry from 'Dagnino' at the 'piazza della repubblica' (near the main station =termini). Here's the map to it: http://www.pasticceriadagnino.com/dove_siamo/cartina_big02_blu.jpg

saluti dalla svizzera tedesca

marco

Thanks Abe. I can't tell you how many times now I have admired your picutures during lulls in my work day flow and day-dreamed about standing at one of those coffee bar counters in Rome. One of the countries in Europe I have yet to visit.

I speak English, Spanish and a little Dutch- no Italian (although Spanish is semi-close). How would an English speaker fare in these Roman coffee cafes and bars? Are the baristas fluent in English to any degree?

The stand-up bar is something I really wish could be integrated into my favorite coffeeshops. I know it probably doesn't work for the way we drink coffee here, but it was just felt so classy to walk up to the bar and have the barista pull a small glass of water for palate cleansing as she took my order.

k7qz wrote:I speak English, Spanish and a little Dutch- no Italian (although Spanish is semi-close). How would an English speaker fare in these Roman coffee cafes and bars? Are the baristas fluent in English to any degree?

The average barista speaks enough English to understand what you want and serve your drink. Most of the ones I talked to speak enough to handle casual chit-chat, and in general, you can get by in Rome with English. I did not ask them about their technique or why they do what they do. I just observed. There is a notion that to be a barista in Italy requires a lot of training and seniority. I saw no evidence of that, in fact, quite the contrary. Some baristas indeed are in their forties and fifties, something you do not find very often in the U.S. and they've held that job for years. But I doubt that there is any complexity or depth to their skill level.

Abe Carmeli wrote:First stop after the Pantheon was Caffe Sant Estachio. They are famous for the house special called Gran caffe. The owner keeps the recipe in a 12" thick solid steel vault, and apparently no one knows how they make it. It looks like a frothed version of espresso. My guess is that it is most likely a frothed macchiato. See picture below.

They sweeten it with sugar unless you ask not to, and if it is frothed macchiato as I suspect, I don't think it would be drinkable without. The crema is dry, but the drink is delicious.

Nice report and pictures Abe!

Personally I did not like Sant Eustachio at all. I had a decent cup a Tazza D'Oro, though. But we all have different taste preferences... ...and things do change (it's been almost a year since I was last in Rome). Gran Caffe on Piazza Di Pietri (also very close to the Pantheon) is nice and they have a La San Marco 4-group lever machine...

Br,
Teme

This thread couldn't have been more timely for me. I discovered it 2 days before leaving for Rome, printed it and read it on the plane.

Sant' Eustachio wasn't always close enough when I needed a caffeine fix, (Rome is a big place), so I tried several cafes suggested by a guide book and some that just looked good to me. I visited each of the better establishments at least 3 times. Life is too short to subject myself to the poor espresso joints more than once.

PIAZZA BARBERINI/TRITONE:

Hotel Aleph, my home for the time served an enjoyable shot. My first of the trip. Hanging out in the fantastic lobby alone was worth the Euro.

Bar Tritone's version of an espresso was not bad and their better than average pastries made it worth a second trip.

Caffe de Paris was a very upscale establishment. The shot was good, but had a different taste, one I hadn't encountered before. The rooster on the cup looked cool, so I haggled to get it for less than the 25 euros they were asking. (Thanks for the idea Luca. The hand crank grinder hobby was costing me a bundle).

News Cafe pulls a sweet shot, the best in this district, far superior to Bar Tritone up the street. I was the first customer through the door. You can't really do a fair comparison unless you go to each cafe early. The one I had here the evening before wasn't as good.
This cafe, like Gran Cafe, uses a tamper, a plastic convex one that looks like a large version of what comes with the Europiccola. It probably came with their Faema.
They have Wifi which was handy because the hotel internet system crashed a couple of days ago.

PIAZZA DEL POPOLO:

Cafe Rosati serves a watery, slightly bitter cup, not worth using up my caffeine limit, so I left most of it and crossed the Piazza to...

Canova Cafe and had one of the better shots of the trip.

PANTHEON VICINITY:

Sant' Eustachio* was all Abe said it would be, lots of crema and an incredible flavor. The first thing the Barista wanted to know was "Sugar?" Nope. Abe must have paved the way.
They serve excellent espresso in the afternoon as well.
Be sure to visit their back room with its roaster and displays of ancient lever machines and hand crank grinders

Camilloni a Sant' Eustachio* was just across the Via. It opened an hour before S.E., and I couldn't wait. An exceptional shot, so I went back later for a Gran Cafe which was excellent. You have to be good to survive that close to S.E.
My palate doesn't like a lot of acidity. The espresso at this cafe and Buvette are on the mild side. If you like some acidity in your drink, as most do, pass on Camilloni and La Buvette.
consistently good, at least 7 shots here and never a bad one.

Giolitti is the oldest gelato shop in Rome, but not the best however. That distinction goes to San Crispino. The Giolitti shot was the worst of the trip, a real bitter facer. They should give their Wega to Camilloni, who's Baristi know how to use one and teach their own Baristi the fine art of putting gelato in a cone.

Tazza d'Oro didn't make the worst shot of the trip, but it was a bottom runger, one of just a few places that I left without finishing the drink. I bought a couple of their cups and watched the Probat spit out batches of Cafe do Brasile.

Gran Cafe/La Caffettiera had the only lever machine I'd seen on the trip. A 4 group springer badged SM. They used a tamper, a cheapie convex metal job. This shop was the busiest of all. The espresso had lots of crema in the shot, but not as good of a flavor as many of the others. A tad over extracted, I'd hoped for better from a lever machine cafe. (I wrote this before reading Teme's post, I'll give it another try).
The second time, I was the first customer through the door and was treated to a terrific espresso. Glad I tried it again, one of the best shots of the trip. Still consistently terrific after 4 visits. Saturday morning's espresso was whiteish and undrinkable. Weekday mornings here, that's it.

Riccioli Cafe may serve good alcoholic drinks, but the espresso was the horrible. Watching the pour was enough to scare me off, translucent brown water. Grazie, ma non grazie.

NEAR THE TERMINI:

Bar Marani served Tazza d'Oro coffee and made it well, but I'm not sure it was good enough to recommend visiting that graffiti riddled section of The City. Take Abe's suggestion and try the Termini instead.

PIAZZA VENEZIA:

Bar Brasile. I was still severely jet lagged when I had this shot. One was good, so 2 must be better. Wrong, I walked back to the hotel feeling like I was doing 50 mph in first gear. No more espresso today.

SPANISH STEPS TO THE CORSO:

La Buvette's shot was very good, but not as strong as most of the others. They also served me my best meal of the trip.

Antico Caffe Greco seemed like the kind of place that would attract rock stars and royality. A decent espresso, but not good enough to match the shot from the food courtish...

Autogrill*- a solid shot with good crema and a nice finish. It rules this part of town.
The best place for an espresso early on a Sunday morning, when most everything else is closed.
I was even more impressed with the quality of the shot on the second visit. This one's a real sleeper.
Autogrill also served an excellent shot late in the day. It's probably because they serve a lot of espresso all day long due to the fact, they are in the middle of a busy shopping district. Italy should reverse their tradition of having cappuccino in the morning and espresso only, after 11:00 am. The milk would hide the poor quality of the afternoon shots.

Ciampo will pull you a very good shot in the morning, in the afternoon go to Autogrill down the Corso.

CA N Silvestro- nice looking place, strange looking espresso, strange tasting espresso.

PIAZZA NAVONA AREA:

Caffe della Pace is only a block behind the church on the piazza and serves a good shot. Forget the tourist caffes on the piazza itself.

TRASTEVERE:

Cafe-Bar di Marzio should be on your very short list of places to visit for excellent espresso. Hanging out in that piazza is also a special experience.
di Marzio was the only cafe I'd encountered that served doubles. They served them in a large cup which was unfortuante because the drink cooled quickly. Here, it's a good idea to have your espresso at the bar while it's still hot and then sit down outside with your croissant and newspaper.

THE STANDOUTS:

Sant' Eustachio*
Camilloni a Sant' Eustachio*
Autogrill*
Gran Cafe/La Caffettiera
Cafe-Bar di Marzio

* serves good shots throughout the day, not just in the morning